Chinese semiconductor thread II

[huemens]

As for the Qualcomm Oryon cores those are presently pending litigation between Qualcomm and ARM Ltd. Remember that those come from Qualcomm's Nuvia acquisition. Development went through some contortions. From what I understand Qualcomm never had an ARM ISA license, it was Nuvia which had the license. ARM Ltd. does not think Qualcomm is entitled to inherit that license.

Qualcomm has had ISA license for many years, they just couldn't develop a core that could beat ARM's own Cortex cores. They bought Nuvia for the core design not for the licensing which is why ARM is angry. The thing is Qualcomms license is very old so the per-core royalties ARM would get from it is very less. Nuvia license is much newer with a much higher per-core royalties.

Qualcomm did not launch it using Nuvia license but launched Nuvia designed core using Qualcomms own license, which is the whole crux of the fight. ARM is asking Qualcomm to destroy all the Nuvia designs, and do a new design if they want to use Qualcomm's own license OR renegotiate a new ISA license (with higher fees) if they want to continue using Nuvia designs.
ARM already cancelled Nuvia's license, because ARM likely added some clause to it from preventing license transfer.

Qualcomm already won this case in court couple of days ago. ARM will of course seek a retrial, but for now Qualcomm has won.
1) The jury couldn't rule that whether Nuvia violated their agreement with ARM or not.
2) But the jury ruled that Qualcomm is allowed to use the Nuvia designs with Qualcomm's own ISA license.

 

[huemens]

Information about DRAM and NAND chips on Huawei Mate 70, supposedly citing Techinsights

(1) According to TechInsights, an analysis of the memory and storage chips assembled in the Huawei Mate 70 Pro/Pro+ revealed that the Mate 70 Pro is equipped with SK Hynix’s 12GB LPDDR5X and 512GB NAND.

(2) The 12GB LPDDR5X chip is based on the D1-a node (14nm), using the MDHD5E2100E die, while the 512GB NAND chip features the 176L 4D PUC TLC architecture (H25FTC0 die).

(3) The DRAM chip used in the previous generation Mate 60 Pro Plus was SK Hynix’s 16GB MDHD5821005 die, which shares the same cell design rules as the 12Gb MDHD5E2100E die.

(4) The Mate 70 Pro Plus is also equipped with SK Hynix’s 16GB LPDDR5X (MDHD5821005) D1-a chip.

(8) SK Hynix’s 176L TLC NAND chips are widely used in Huawei smartphones such as the Mate 60 series, Mate XT, and Mate 70 Pro, while YMTC’s X2 and X3 TLC NAND chips are installed in devices like the Pura 70 series and Nova 13 Pro smartphones.

(9) The recently released Huawei Nova 13 Pro exclusively uses memory and storage chips manufactured by Chinese IDMs, such as CXMT’s G3 12GB LPDDR5 for DRAM and YMTC’s Xtacking 3.0 232L TLC for NAND.

(10) TechInsights expected Huawei to use memory devices from CXMT and YMTC in the Mate 70 series as well but was surprised to see SK Hynix and Samsung products being used again.
(“We expected Huawei to use memory devices from CXMT and YMTC and were surprised to see SK hynix and Samsung again.”)

(11) The memory chips used in these handsets were released to the market as early as the beginning of 2022, suggesting that Huawei may have procured these components before the sanctions were implemented in October 2022.

(13) For NAND:
• SK Hynix’s chips are used exclusively in the Mate series.
• Nova Flip uses Samsung NAND, while all other devices rely on YMTC’s NAND products.

(14) For LPDDR:
• Apart from Nova 13 Pro (which uses CXMT chips), all devices still rely on SK Hynix and Samsung products.

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[sunnymaxi]

Information about DRAM and NAND chips on Huawei Mate 70, supposedly citing Techinsights
View attachment 141299

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but Huawei's CEO said, MATE70 all chips are 100 percent domestically produced.. maybe he talked about those DRAMS produced in China by Sk hynix. LOL

Nova and Pura series used domestically produced DRAM/flash memory.

those Sk hynix products released in the market in early 2022 so there is a strong possibility, Huawei acquired chips before completely cut off..

 

[huemens]

but Huawei's CEO said, MATE70 all chips are 100 percent domestically produced.. maybe he talked about those DRAMS produced in China by Sk hynix. LOL

Nova and Pura series used domestically produced DRAM/flash memory.

those Sk hynix products released in the market in early 2022 so there is a strong possibility, Huawei acquired chips before completely cut off..

This is understandable, because Mate is their most high-end series and require LPDDR5X. CXMT did not produce LPDDR5X at that time. They started LPDDR5 last year and now DDR5. So hopefully CXMT LPDDR5X is not that far away.

Same with NAND. Huawei used YMTC 232L NAND for Pura and Nova. But YMTC doesn't make that chip anymore. YMTC's new de-Americanized NAND is only 160L at the moment. As we discussed here before, while it has much higher per-layer density, the overall density is still less than their 232L chip. If YMTC can get this process to 192L then it would have better density than current 232L devices from competitors.

 

[JPaladin32]

but Huawei's CEO said, MATE70 all chips are 100 percent domestically produced.. maybe he talked about those DRAMS produced in China by Sk hynix. LOL

Nova and Pura series used domestically produced DRAM/flash memory.

those Sk hynix products released in the market in early 2022 so there is a strong possibility, Huawei acquired chips before completely cut off..

His original words in the interview were "we are now able to manufacture 100% of the components for mate 70 series". I think he implies they can produce all the parts if needed, but if there is already a stockpile of chips before sanctions they won't rule out using them until they run out.

 

[european_guy]

The above image seems legit from TechInsights: only an analysis lab can put up such a detailed table with die markings and all.

We were expecting the Mate 70, released at the end of November to be the first 100% fully domestic phone....instead the honor goes to a phone released even one month earlier, on 22 October 2024: the

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.

So this is the first certified 100% Chinese localized phone and the first HW phone to use CXMT memory, the missing last piece of the puzzle.

It makes totally sense for HW to empty Sk and Samsung inventory before moving fully domestic: they clear old inventory and at the same time give some more time and experience to local producers before exclusively jump on the 100% Chinese bandwagon.

From an engineering POW makes totally sense to test a new supplier (CXMT) on a mid range before upgrading it to top range, and the HW Nova 13 Pro fits nicely in this scheme.

I would say the HW Nova 13 Pro will be remembered in the future as a huge milestone and the successful end of a lengthy and painful journey started in 2018: 6 very long years ago.

 

[PopularScience]

Kirin cpu in low end huawei phone

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[gotodistance]

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“Trying to stop China (in the semiconductor industry) is a fool's errand”
“It is important to keep China out of sensitive technologies, but export controls are just a ‘speed bump’”
“The only way to beat China is to get ahead of them”
“We have to run faster and innovate than them. That’s the way to win”

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[Enestori]

Those Sk hynix products released in the market in early 2022 so there is a strong possibility, Huawei acquired chips before completely cut off..

Huawei was cut off in 2020 lol, so it is impossible for this to be old inventory from before the sanctions barring a time machine.

Congratulations to Huawei for a truly massive round of sanctions-busting.

 

[tonyget]

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