Chinese semiconductor thread II

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
I’m just relaying what others in the industry internally thinks about Huawei. There are also some policymakers who don’t like how aggressively Huawei pushes to try to get what it wants too. It’s not a universal sentiment but it’s also not an uncommon one. What really matters though is the central govt doesn’t want a monolith controlling too many critical industrial stacks because they’re wary of agglomerative competitive advantage making it impossible for other players to participate in the economy so eventually if Huawei continues to bulldoze this many industries and gets too many monopolies the central govt will have to step in and find some way to balance the situation in order to keep the market environment healthy.
slightly disagreed with you here. Huawei is just the spearhead of China's indigenous semiconductor efforts. there are hundreds of companies and suppliers behind the scene. in EUV and other related tools Huawei's role is just negligible. they are just building compatible ecosystem through its massive R&D.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
slightly disagreed with you here. Huawei is just the spearhead of China's indigenous semiconductor efforts. there are hundreds of companies and suppliers behind the scene. in EUV and other related tools Huawei's role is just negligible. they are just building compatible ecosystem through its massive R&D.
Shrug again I’m just relaying what some in the industry think. Not everyone is buddy buddy with everyone behind the scenes even if they all recognize they need to collaborate right now to overcome geopolitical obstacles.
 

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Yeah you can do everything and change things. But you can’t change some people lack of self confidence in themselves and their sense of inferiority complex towards others. It will take a long time for this feeling to disappear completely . Old habits die hard unfortunately .
Some is part of it of a complex mostly due the status of being a developing country.
Some is part the struggle that China semiconductor industry had in the past who IMO was part of a learning process but keep some fab managers worry about the use of domestic made equipment, software and materials. As you said that will be reduced due to the "go domestic or die" situation that stooges put Chinese companies in.
Some is part that there still a lot of foreigners in the Mainland semiconductor industry and they are more willing to go for equipment that is more used outside of China.
I’m just relaying what others in the industry internally thinks about Huawei. There are also some policymakers who don’t like how aggressively Huawei pushes to try to get what it wants too. It’s not a universal sentiment but it’s also not an uncommon one.
After the "October Surprise" in 2022 many in the industry blamed the sanctions on China showing to the world their achievements, the lead to the industry secrecy when they only way we knew that SMIC achieved 7nm was by a foreign company opening one of their chips and inspect them on a SEM. Keeping foreigners eyes out of China semiconductor industry is the new moto, so they may even have a pretty decent EUV machine and the public will never know. Understandable, but also deprive the Chinese public of a source pride for their achievements.
What really matters though is the central govt doesn’t want a monolith controlling too many critical industrial stacks because they’re wary of agglomerative competitive advantage so eventually if Huawei continues to bulldoze this many industries and gets too many monopolies the central govt will have to step in and find some way to balance the situation in order to keep the market environment healthy.
Far from it. SMIC is the company that they are collaborating to make their most advance chips and is not a Intel type company, is a dedicated foundry. If Huawei manage to help SMIC to advance their manufacturing process ironically they may had helped others fabless companies in case exports controls become unmanageable. Other GPU makers that may otherwise go down due the lack of manufacturing access could get a second chance with a access to Huawei inspired manufacturing processes and EDA.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Far from it. SMIC is the company that they are collaborating to make their most advance chips and is not a Intel type company, is a dedicated foundry. If Huawei manage to help SMIC to advance their manufacturing process ironically they may had helped others fabless companies in case exports controls become unmanageable. Other GPU makers that may otherwise go down due the lack of manufacturing access could get a second chance with a access to Huawei inspired manufacturing processes and EDA.
SMIC is not happy that Huawei is trying to get into fabbing and may become a future competitor. If Huawei’s advanced fabbing endeavors take off don’t be surprised if we see some lawsuits flying.
 

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
SMIC is not happy that Huawei is trying to get into fabbing and may become a future competitor. If Huawei’s advanced fabbing endeavors take off don’t be surprised if we see some lawsuits flying.
For now it seems that they are more into very mature chips to complement their supply chain with chips that they couldn't find in the market.

They will eventually move into more advance chips but will be more like an Intel type fab were the mostly do their own chips coupled with SMIC.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Honestly, the real friction won’t be IP theft lawsuits IMO, it will be a quiet fight over talent poaching ;)
Yes that too lol. Lots of people annoyed at SiCarrier for this as well.

For now it seems that they are more into very mature chips to complement their supply chain with chips that they couldn't find in the market.

They will eventually move into more advance chips but will be more like an Intel type fab were the mostly do their own chips coupled with SMIC.
SMIC doesn’t trust Huawei’s long term intentions and they probably shouldn’t.
 

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
For now it seems that they are more into very mature chips to complement their supply chain with chips that they couldn't find in the market.

They will eventually move into more advance chips but will be more like an Intel type fab were the mostly do their own chips coupled with SMIC.
Huawei fab is a direct entry into advance chips most likely from this year end.. they just want to fab their own Kirin chips.

SMIC should worried about HH being entering into Finfet.. but 7nm has a huge demand so SMIC would still earn billions without Huawei. there are so many Non-Huawei customers.
 

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Yes that too lol. Lots of people annoyed at SiCarrier for this as well.
Naura and AMEC both compete harshly in close to the same products. Naura launched an Ion Implanter in area that use to be the reign of CETC, so is Hwatsing. That is how competition works.

SiCarrier seems to be created to complement in areas were others toolmakers where weaker at the time because, I don't know, harsh US exports controls blocking the access to such tools.
SMIC doesn’t trust Huawei’s long term intentions and they probably shouldn’t.
There is evidence of that apart from social media posts? SMIC main competitor is HH Grace since they are both pure and play foundries. Huawei is more like Intel they only care about making chips for their products. They only way I see to be threat to SMIC is that they stop the collab with SMIC and they start to make their chips in HLMC.
 

sunnymaxi

Colonel
Registered Member
Yes that too lol. Lots of people annoyed at SiCarrier for this as well.


SMIC doesn’t trust Huawei’s long term intentions and they probably shouldn’t.
Huawei's DGGMT fab is the direct entry into high end chips. Huawei just want to fab their own Kirin/Ai chips. i don't think so they could even snatch SMIC customers coz of internal demand.

SMIC should more worried about Huahong being entered into 7nm.
 
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