Chinese semiconductor thread II

ansy1968

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This mean we will see a prototype EUVL machine within the Year.

SMIC Rumored To Be Setting Up An Internal Research And Development Team To Kick Off Work On The 3nm Process Within The Year​

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•Mar 11, 2024 03:21 AM EDT
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After SMIC was reportedly setting up chip production for Huawei to
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later this year, China’s biggest semiconductor manufacturer is now rumored to be assembling a team dedicated to 3nm chip development. For obvious reasons, the company will seek aid to help achieve this monumental goal and, in the process, obtain complete autonomy from foreign companies and the tight grip that the U.S. has on them.

SMIC said to seek subsidies from the Chinese government to help it reach its goal of mass production of 3nm wafers​

As reported by DigiTimes, Joongang mentions that SMIC’s initial goal is to begin operations of its 5nm production line that will not just mass produce Huawei chipsets for a wide range of products but also AI silicon. It is reported that the Chinese manufacturer will accomplish this using the existing DUV machinery that it will likely re-purpose since ASML, the only company in the world that can supply cutting-edge EUV technology, has been barred from supplying this equipment to not just SMIC but any company of Chinese origin.

However, SMIC is looking beyond the 5nm threshold, just as it did when it partnered with Huawei to launch the 7nm Kirin 9000S. The latest report states that the semiconductor maker has formed an internal research and development team that will commence work on the 3nm node. One of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of SMIC’s goal is low yields and high production costs, but the company is said to have a strategy that involves receiving massive subsidies from the Chinese government.

Receiving subsidies will be of paramount importance to SMIC, especially given that an earlier report stated that its
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than TSMC’s on the same manufacturing process due to using the older DUV equipment. However, we do not expect the first 3nm wafers from the company to roll out until after a few years. For starters, commercialization of Huawei’s 5nm chips will be given priority, and it is possible that this technology will be utilized for a few years before we witness a transition to the realm of 3nm wafers. Whatever decision SMIC will take, one thing is clear; this will be the most challenging task undertaken by the company.
 

ansy1968

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I don't want to sound too optimistic, if TSMC and Samsung is still having trouble with their 3nm chips, by late 2025 or early 2026 we may see SMIC joining an inclusive club of 3nm producers, all Asian by the way. I base my statement when Liang Mong Soon had already stated that they had finished the development of 5nm and 3nm and what they need are the necessary tool to validate and improvement their design, they had achieved the former with ASML 2050i, with research on materials and other EUVL items using SSRF, We may see his baby 3nm born before his retirement.
 

Blitzo

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This mean we will see a prototype EUVL machine within the Year.

SMIC Rumored To Be Setting Up An Internal Research And Development Team To Kick Off Work On The 3nm Process Within The Year​

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•Mar 11, 2024 03:21 AM EDT
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After SMIC was reportedly setting up chip production for Huawei to
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later this year, China’s biggest semiconductor manufacturer is now rumored to be assembling a team dedicated to 3nm chip development. For obvious reasons, the company will seek aid to help achieve this monumental goal and, in the process, obtain complete autonomy from foreign companies and the tight grip that the U.S. has on them.

SMIC said to seek subsidies from the Chinese government to help it reach its goal of mass production of 3nm wafers​

As reported by DigiTimes, Joongang mentions that SMIC’s initial goal is to begin operations of its 5nm production line that will not just mass produce Huawei chipsets for a wide range of products but also AI silicon. It is reported that the Chinese manufacturer will accomplish this using the existing DUV machinery that it will likely re-purpose since ASML, the only company in the world that can supply cutting-edge EUV technology, has been barred from supplying this equipment to not just SMIC but any company of Chinese origin.

However, SMIC is looking beyond the 5nm threshold, just as it did when it partnered with Huawei to launch the 7nm Kirin 9000S. The latest report states that the semiconductor maker has formed an internal research and development team that will commence work on the 3nm node. One of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of SMIC’s goal is low yields and high production costs, but the company is said to have a strategy that involves receiving massive subsidies from the Chinese government.

Receiving subsidies will be of paramount importance to SMIC, especially given that an earlier report stated that its
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than TSMC’s on the same manufacturing process due to using the older DUV equipment. However, we do not expect the first 3nm wafers from the company to roll out until after a few years. For starters, commercialization of Huawei’s 5nm chips will be given priority, and it is possible that this technology will be utilized for a few years before we witness a transition to the realm of 3nm wafers. Whatever decision SMIC will take, one thing is clear; this will be the most challenging task undertaken by the company.

Not directed at you specifically, but if people want to post articles, can the link also be posted in addition to the content?

For instance the link to that article is:
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ansy1968

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In related news CXMT may get a boost from a former SMIC executive, I see a crosspollination among the Chinese tech industries and with the news posted by @tokenanalyst and @sunnymaxi about CXMT getting a huge gov't subsidies, it all fall in place and we may see CXMT using domestic tools as Zhou Meisheng is the former chief technologist from LAM Research in China.

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1 hour ago — Zhou Meisheng, former EVP of technology R&D at Semiconductor Manufacturing International (SMIC), has joined Chinese DRAM manufacturer ChangXin ...



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Jul 1, 2022 — Before joining SMIC, Zhou Meisheng served as Chief Technologist of Lam Research in China. Previously, she served as Vice President of SMIC's R&D ...
 

gelgoog

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Don't count on SMIC 3nm any time soon. They don't even have prototype Chinese EUV machines. Let alone production ones.
Even a SMIC 5nm process with DUV would be extremely hard to do. Do not forget that this is basically what Intel tried to do for many years and failed hard. Intel never managed higher density with DUV than what SMIC has with N+2.
 

european_guy

Junior Member
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Don't count on SMIC 3nm any time soon. They don't even have prototype Chinese EUV machines. Let alone production ones.
Even a SMIC 5nm process with DUV would be extremely hard to do. Do not forget that this is basically what Intel tried to do for many years and failed hard. Intel never managed higher density with DUV than what SMIC has with N+2.

A Finfet based 3nm would be very difficult without EUV, common consensus say it is impossible....but if they really set up this team, they have elements to think otherwise.

I'm not an expert, so this is just a non informed comment, but maybe they will not use FinFet technology, maybe they will go with some form of
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technology or something else different from FinFet. What seems clear to me is that if they started a team to go 3nm, very probably they already have some ideas on how to do it (without EUV), they have figured out some path to follow and to develop further.

So this is important news actually.

My bet (it's really a wild bet!) is that to go 3nm they will not wait for EUV, that seems to be still years away, but will modify and adapt the FinFet structure instead. There is already a lot of literature on this and Samsung is actually developing this, Intel and TSMC have also GAA transistor on their roadmap.
 
Last edited:

olalavn

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This mean we will see a prototype EUVL machine within the Year.

SMIC Rumored To Be Setting Up An Internal Research And Development Team To Kick Off Work On The 3nm Process Within The Year​

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•Mar 11, 2024 03:21 AM EDT
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After SMIC was reportedly setting up chip production for Huawei to
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later this year, China’s biggest semiconductor manufacturer is now rumored to be assembling a team dedicated to 3nm chip development. For obvious reasons, the company will seek aid to help achieve this monumental goal and, in the process, obtain complete autonomy from foreign companies and the tight grip that the U.S. has on them.

SMIC said to seek subsidies from the Chinese government to help it reach its goal of mass production of 3nm wafers​

As reported by DigiTimes, Joongang mentions that SMIC’s initial goal is to begin operations of its 5nm production line that will not just mass produce Huawei chipsets for a wide range of products but also AI silicon. It is reported that the Chinese manufacturer will accomplish this using the existing DUV machinery that it will likely re-purpose since ASML, the only company in the world that can supply cutting-edge EUV technology, has been barred from supplying this equipment to not just SMIC but any company of Chinese origin.

However, SMIC is looking beyond the 5nm threshold, just as it did when it partnered with Huawei to launch the 7nm Kirin 9000S. The latest report states that the semiconductor maker has formed an internal research and development team that will commence work on the 3nm node. One of the biggest obstacles standing in the way of SMIC’s goal is low yields and high production costs, but the company is said to have a strategy that involves receiving massive subsidies from the Chinese government.

Receiving subsidies will be of paramount importance to SMIC, especially given that an earlier report stated that its
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
than TSMC’s on the same manufacturing process due to using the older DUV equipment. However, we do not expect the first 3nm wafers from the company to roll out until after a few years. For starters, commercialization of Huawei’s 5nm chips will be given priority, and it is possible that this technology will be utilized for a few years before we witness a transition to the realm of 3nm wafers. Whatever decision SMIC will take, one thing is clear; this will be the most challenging task undertaken by the company.
The equivalent of 3nm... if DUV can produce a chip with the same transistor as 3nm... it will be a slap in the face of the U.S..
 

pbd456

Junior Member
Registered Member
We wouldn't know if there is or there isn't euv prototype in china, but it was rumored that the light source (which is the most difficult component) was done last year in Harbin (speculate from the post of a Huawei employee)

And also SSMB light source is supposed to be finished in March this year.
 

ansy1968

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Registered Member
Don't count on SMIC 3nm any time soon. They don't even have prototype Chinese EUV machines. Let alone production ones.
Even a SMIC 5nm process with DUV would be extremely hard to do. Do not forget that this is basically what Intel tried to do for many years and failed hard. Intel never managed higher density with DUV than what SMIC has with N+2.
Correct bro BUT I trust Liang Mong Song, he had delivered what he had promise and I believed the first half of 2026 we will see Huawei using a 3nm chip, from his resignation letter circa 2021

Liang Mong Song: SMIC's 7nm node has already completed full development, and is preparing for mass production in April 2021. Designs and most of the development for 5nm and 3nm nodes have also already been completed, only awaiting EUVL delivery at this point.​


From this we can correctly surmise that 5nm N+3 will be produced this year using ASML NXT2050i, having learned a great deal from mass producing 7NM N+2 the transition process may have made easier for N+3. Regarding 3nm while they're waiting for an EUVL, they are researching, experimenting and validating various materials, components and other items using the SSRF. With various reports from our esteem members about major technological breakthrough being achieved. A prototype EUVL in 2024 is possible with SMIC using the Machine to validate their 3nm chip design as being reported by the article. So all the planet is in line for the introduction of SMIC 3nm N+4 in 2026, it will be a sight to behold. ;)
 

tokenanalyst

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Domestic substitution of OLED materials is accelerating, and dozens of local companies are vying for deployment.​

In recent years, with the increase in the penetration rate of OLED panels in various application fields and the continuous release of domestic OLED production capacity, the shipments of domestic OLED panels have continued to increase. At the same time, in order to improve the supply security of OLED materials, domestic panel manufacturers have increased support for upstream material manufacturers and further promoted the localization process of OLED materials.
According to incomplete statistics from Jiwei.com, there are currently dozens of domestic companies that are planning to enter the field of OLED materials, including listed companies such as 800 million Spacetime, Ruilian New Materials, Wanrun Co., Ltd., and Puyang Huicheng, as well as numerous Rising stars, these small and medium-sized enterprises are becoming more and more mature and are starting a new journey of IPO listing.
Domestic OLED screens continue to penetrate and there is strong demand for foldable screens
Since September 2023, the mobile phone industry has entered the peak season for new phone releases. Manufacturers have continued to upgrade the screen configurations of new phones, and the demand for mid-to-high-end OLED panels has grown rapidly. This has caused structural tensions in OLED supply and demand in the near future, and product prices have shown a rebound trend.
According to the author's understanding, the price of low-priced flexible screen products will start to rise in September 2023. In October, domestic flexible OLED panels will begin to rise across the board, with an increase of less than 10%. Flexible OLED products maintained a slight price increase from November to December.
Entering 2024, Huawei and Honor will further strengthen their cooperation with domestic panel manufacturers such as BOE and Visionox, and vivo and OPPO will gradually switch from SDC to domestic panel suppliers, driving the penetration rate of domestic OLED panels to continue to increase. The industry expects that domestically produced OLED panels will continue to increase this year. OLED panel market share will surpass South Korea for the first time.
In addition to domestic substitution, brand manufacturers' radical plans for folding screen mobile phones will bring strong demand for flexible OLED. Omdia data shows that in 2023, mainland China's OLED manufacturers' folding screen shipments will be 8 million units, and are expected to reach 13 million units by 2024. piece.
Haitong International pointed out that Huawei has a positive folding machine shipment target in 2024, increasing from 2.6 million units in 2023 to 7 million to 10 million units in 2024. The screen size of folding machines is larger. The screen sizes of Samsung ZFold5, Honor Magic Vs2 and Huawei X5 are all larger than 7.6 inches, which is nearly double the current common 6.7-inch display area. The same 6th-generation line substrate is used to cut the number of folding screen pieces into one piece. It is less than half that of ordinary models, and the yield rate is even lower. On the other hand, folding machines are generally equipped with LTPO, and the production capacity loss and value are higher than those of LTPS OLED of the same size. It is expected that the increase in the number of folding machines will significantly consume OLED production capacity and increase value.
As market demand continues to increase, OLED panel prices have also shown a steady increase. Haitong International predicts that prices will continue to increase by about 10% in 1Q24/2Q24, and the high prosperity will continue in the second half of 2024.

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