Chinese semiconductor industry

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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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Fedupwithlies said:
Ignore him. He's falling back to the classic western trope of taking a little molehill and making a mountain out of it.
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The thing is there isn't even a molehill! People assume there's a molehill (domestic ArFi scanners aren't ready) because there haven't been any announcements. There aren't going to be announcements; there's a technology war going on, in case you people haven't noticed. It's completely expected that there would be some degree of wartime secrecy and mobilization.
 
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gadgetcool5

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ZeEa5KPul said:
The thing is there isn't even a molehill! People assume there's a molehill (domestic ArFi scanners aren't ready) because there haven't been any announcements. There aren't going to be announcements; there's a technology war going on, in case you people haven't noticed. It's completely expected that there would be some degree of wartime secrecy and mobilization.
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"I will never announce anything, show anything or produce anything, but I know how to stop the sun from rising tomorrow. Just trust me on this one."

There are only two possibilities: Chinese announce success or do not.

If China announces success then it's succeeded just as its announcement said. If China never announces anything, then it's succeeded but simply is doing so in secret due to wartime mobilization. Heads I win, tails you lose.

There is no possibility that China has not succeeded. According to some here it is metaphysically impossible. Unfortunately that is not how the world works. ;)
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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gadgetcool5 said:
There is no possibility that China has not succeeded. According to some here it is metaphysically impossible.
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Actually, that's a far more accurate model than the one the haters and trolls use. Most people can only fathom simpleminded models, so under those constraints it would be far better for them to go with the god-powered China model. They'll make far fewer mistakes with it, although admittedly that's a very low bar.
gadgetcool5 said:
Unfortunately that is not how the world works. ;)
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Unfortunately for you that's how China works. ;):cool::)
 
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tokenanalyst

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There is not on-off switch in the semiconductor industry, everything is a process and takes time. The pattern I have been seeing is that the equipment need to get to fab and be validated by the costumer, who is going to be the user, like for example the Kingstone ion implanters, they may announced but not necessary, and only after they passed costumer validation. Also there is not date in this thing, is not a school project, equipment is ready when is ready, i can assure from all I had been seen that everyone involved in that project had been working hard to deliver as soon as possible. If ASML can't deliver their High NA EUV scanners in 2025, do they failed? No, guess what? they shift the date a year or two.​
 
Fedupwithlies

Fedupwithlies

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tokenanalyst said:
There is not on-off switch in the semiconductor industry, everything is a process and takes time. The pattern I have been seeing is that the equipment need to get to fab and be validated by the costumer, who is going to be the user, like for example the Kingstone ion implanters, they may announced but not necessary, and only after they passed costumer validation. Also there is not date in this thing, is not a school project, equipment is ready when is ready, i can assure from all I had been seen that everyone involved in that project had been working hard to deliver as soon as possible. If ASML can't deliver their High NA EUV scanners in 2025, do they failed? No, guess what? they shift the date a year or two.​
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I was in the middle of typing, "I guess in-progress" is no longer a state in gadgetcool's little world.
 
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hvpc

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ZeEa5KPul said:
I can assure you that Chinese semiconductor companies put more effort into their R&D than you do into your alts and obsessive trolling, tidalwave.
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non-Chinese companies' do collectively take up a bigger chunk of global R&D spending. They simply have much higher revenue at this point in time, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. R&D is typically tied to the revenue to the tune of, most recently in this industry, 10-20% of revenue. The domestic R&D spending will increase over time along with more business/revenue.

Here are 2021 R&D expenses for the major fabs for you to draw your own interpretation.:
Intel $15.2B
Samsung $6.5B
tsmc $4.46B
SK Hynix $3.098B
Micron $2.66B
SMIC $0.638B
GF $0.478B
UMC $0.466B

No data for Huahong Group, CXMT, & YMTC because the latter two are not publicly traded so data to draw from and for the first, its R&D is <$0.2B but his does not include what's spent by its subsidiary (Huali). All three have much smaller revenue than SMIC so not expected to spend anywhere close to SMIC.

ASML $2.55B
AMAT $2.485B
Naura $1.57B
LAM $1.49B
KLA $0.928B
TEL $0.677B
 
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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
hvpc said:
non-Chinese companies' do collectively take up a bigger chunk of global R&D spending. They simply have much higher revenue at this point in time, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. R&D is typically tied to the revenue to the tune of, most recently in this industry, 10-20% of revenue. The domestic R&D spending will increase over time along with more business/revenue.

Here are 2021 R&D expenses for the major fabs for you to draw your own interpretation.:
Intel $15.2B
Samsung $6.5B
tsmc $4.46B
SK Hynix $3.098B
Micron $2.66B
SMIC $0.638B
GF $0.478B
UMC $0.466B

No data for Huahong Group, CXMT, & YMTC because the latter two are not publicly traded so data to draw from and for the first, its R&D is <$0.2B but his does not include what's spent by its subsidiary (Huali). All three have much smaller revenue than SMIC so not expected to spend anywhere close to SMIC.

ASML $2.55B
AMAT $2.485B
Naura $1.57B
LAM $1.49B
KLA $0.928B
TEL $0.677B
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That's Naura revenue?
 
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hvpc

Junior Member
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tokenanalyst said:
That's Naura revenue?
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I got Naura's R&D number from this link:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Reading it, again, it's seems I used the R&D expense for its parent company BOE. Just now, I looked for Naura's financial report, but couldn't find the actual R&D expense line item. I'll dig a bit more when I have time later today.

All other R&D expenses I obtained from actual financial reports so should be accurate.
 
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