Chinese semiconductor industry

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Blitzo

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What we all remember about Huawei smartphones were it was one of the premium brands, leaders in technology (its own Kirin chip, first to use 5nm process along with Apple), pioneer in smartphone camera, etc.

This 3D stacked 14nm, however, would not and would not be meant to get Huawei back to smartphone business where it left off. It's simply to get Huawei back to the game. Huawei still needs to be in the smartphone business, for its Harmony OS and its ecosystem as well as 5G. Hopefully, it would gradually get back to the leading position, but it would take time.

From what i know Huawei intends for its 14nm 3D Stacked Chips to be comparable in performance to a regular 7nm Chip.
Of course such a fabrication process will result in size issues as well as excess heat generation.
They intend to overcome these issues of excess size through 3D Stacking and Heterogeneous Integration.
YMTC has sucessfully used 3D Stacking in producing its products and they have also developed X Tacking Technology which some are saying Huawei could License.
Recently as well a number of Chinese companies have developed Advanced Packaging Equipment which shows that they are serious in going down that path.
I suppose a Huawei SOC that is comparable to a regular 7nm SOC would make the Huawei Mobile Phone a Mid Range 5G Phone.
This product will allow Huawei to get back into the business of selling 5G Phones and to promote its Harmony OS locally and worldwide.

Huawei already has a 40nm FAB up and running which they intend to upgrade to 28nm and 20nm next year. So they have got the ball rolling and are serious about producing their own SOCs.

That makes sense, it's about what I thought.
Thanks

Just wanted to confirm it wasn't that we were somehow expecting them to produce flagship level smartphones with 14nm stacked lol.
 

caudaceus

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Seems even if Huawei success with Chip tech indigenization, they'd focus on server market first. It's more accepting towards non SOTA chips, size and power consumption, and require less supply.
 

BlackWindMnt

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Seems even if Huawei success with Chip tech indigenization, they'd focus on server market first. It's more accepting towards non SOTA chips, size and power consumption, and require less supply.
I think 7nm stacked might be good enough for mobile, the thing is how much computing power can you get per watt consumed. This is important for personal devices like phones and laptops. One thing vertical integration from silicon to software might actually make the end user experience more pleasant if Huawei can optimize their software. Google has been able to do this with their Pixel phones for years now very sub optimal hardware with excellent software development.

In the server market is also interesting AWS services that provide a graviton option are usually cheaper per wattage consumed. Aws graviton is Amazon's own custom ARM chip design for some of their cloud services.
 

dingyibvs

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What exactly is 3D stacked 14nm? My understanding is that anything 28nm or so and below no longer describes the physical size of the transistors, so how does say a typical 7nm process node look compared to a 3D stacked 14nm?
 

BlackWindMnt

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What exactly is 3D stacked 14nm? My understanding is that anything 28nm or so and below no longer describes the physical size of the transistors, so how does say a typical 7nm process node look compared to a 3D stacked 14nm?
Not a expert, but a single layer chip has limited area where you can draw on. Stacking multiple 14nm you can double maybe even triple that area. So a 3d stacked 14nm can provide enough area for computing power to approach that of 5~7nm computing power on a single layer.

example:
single layer area 1cm^2 can provide a transistor count(5nm) of 10 billion
3d stacked layer area 2 times 1 cm^2 so effectively 2cm^2 because you can stack 2 layers which can provide a transistor count(14nm) of 9 billion.

The negative side of this is you need to power and cool the bigger chip.
So you probably need to spend more on cooling and battery.
 

tokenanalyst

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What exactly is 3D stacked 14nm? My understanding is that anything 28nm or so and below no longer describes the physical size of the transistors, so how does say a typical 7nm process node look compared to a 3D stacked 14nm?
1637769551212.png

As far as is know is an advanced packaging technique which allows to interconnect multiple dies in a single chip 3Dimensional or a monolithic technique to build the chip in 3d layer by layer (by example a memory stack) or a combination of both, in other words more transistors in a single chip, better performance.

1637770565692.png1637770614223.png


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Appix

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US blocks companies aiding Chinese military's quantum computing efforts​

The US is taking extra steps to prevent China's military from claiming
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. The Commerce Department has added eight technology producers to its Entity List to prevent them from supporting the Chinese military's quantum computing efforts. Officials are concerned the entities could feed "emerging" US tech that could aid with
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, producing
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and developing anti-stealth or anti-submarine systems.

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focuses on a mix of companies and researchers, including QuantumCTek and the Hefei National Laboratory for Physical Sciences at Microscale. The US also added three affiliates of Corad Technology Limited, a Chinese firm on the list since 2019, although it wasn't clear that quantum computing was involved — it was also accused of backing Iran's military and space programs as well as North Korea "front companies."


The broader Entity List update included 27 organizations and people, including 13 in Pakistan accused of backing the country's "unsafeguarded" nuclear or ballistic missile programs.

This is unlikely to put a stop to China's military uses of quantum computing when the country may need to research and develop much of the technology in-house. The expanded blocklist might slow things down, however, by limiting China's access to American processors and other equipment that could fast-track development. Consider this a stumbling block that gives the US a better chance of
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Orthan

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CNBC article about ASML. It mentions ASML launching a High-NA machine in 2025 and that intel got an exclusive deal to buy the first machines.

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What do you think of it? I think that this exclusive deal will give intel an edge compared to TSMC and samsung. I also wonder why did ASML made this deal, unless intel is paying very big.

I dont know if this has already been posted. This article from semiengineering talks about High-NA.

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Too technical for me. Does anyone knows if china has anything in this area?
 

tokenanalyst

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US blocks companies aiding Chinese military's quantum computing efforts​

The US is taking extra steps to prevent China's military from claiming
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. The Commerce Department has added eight technology producers to its Entity List to prevent them from supporting the Chinese military's quantum computing efforts. Officials are concerned the entities could feed "emerging" US tech that could aid with
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, producing
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and developing anti-stealth or anti-submarine systems.

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focuses on a mix of companies and researchers, including QuantumCTek and the Hefei National Laboratory for Physical Sciences at Microscale. The US also added three affiliates of Corad Technology Limited, a Chinese firm on the list since 2019, although it wasn't clear that quantum computing was involved — it was also accused of backing Iran's military and space programs as well as North Korea "front companies."


The broader Entity List update included 27 organizations and people, including 13 in Pakistan accused of backing the country's "unsafeguarded" nuclear or ballistic missile programs.

This is unlikely to put a stop to China's military uses of quantum computing when the country may need to research and develop much of the technology in-house. The expanded blocklist might slow things down, however, by limiting China's access to American processors and other equipment that could fast-track development. Consider this a stumbling block that gives the US a better chance of
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.

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FE-LRDjWUAgIUH9
Just 1 company of the list make Quantum products, like i said before U.S. products are unreliable and U.S. companies are unreliable partners. Chinese companies put themselves and their investors at risk by buying U.S. products. This is with Biden, with Trump in 2025 is going to be much much worse. The de-Americanization of commercial products is the only way forward for Chinese companies.

Chinese companies should invest within China in companies that offer alternative products.
 
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