Chinese semiconductor industry

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Overbom

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Do these nations (including russia) have the domestic market for it? Just because they can buy from china, doesnt mean that they will find it worthy to set up an industry for it. But perhabs someone here can answer this.
The big markets are obviously China, US, EU.

Now there is room for smaller markets if various countries can cooperate. Such as, Middle East/Arabic countries, ASEAN +Japan/S.Korea, India + neighbours. There are other combinations as well


It all depends on if the countries in these smaller can cooperate
 

BlackWindMnt

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Do these nations (including russia) have the domestic market for it? Just because they can buy from china, doesnt mean that they will find it worthy to set up an industry for it. But perhabs someone here can answer this.
Why not Russia is like 140 million people that's France and Germany together in population numbers, Iran is like another 80 million. If Indonesia and Pakistan develop more that will open up almost 500 million customers. Those two are close by and should always be accessible, Pakistan can be supplied by CPEC and for Indonesia you don't have to travel through the Malacca strait.

To prevent tension in the SCO alliance you might want to give them access to like DUVL 28 and 14nm procedures which by 2025 should be ancient tech. If only just to prevent them from buying US or EU based sources. If a multi polar world is the objective then creating and supplying the biggest population centers and markets is the key to stay atop. Block markets for US and EU suppliers to cut off their revenue streams and so their R&D funding. This way you can always out spent them in R&D and revenue generation to stay a top.
 

FangYuan

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Why not Russia is like 140 million people that's France and Germany together in population numbers, Iran is like another 80 million. If Indonesia and Pakistan develop more that will open up almost 500 million customers. Those two are close by and should always be accessible, Pakistan can be supplied by CPEC and for Indonesia you don't have to travel through the Malacca strait.

To prevent tension in the SCO alliance you might want to give them access to like DUVL 28 and 14nm procedures which by 2025 should be ancient tech. If only just to prevent them from buying US or EU based sources. If a multi polar world is the objective then creating and supplying the biggest population centers and markets is the key to stay atop. Block markets for US and EU suppliers to cut off their revenue streams and so their R&D funding. This way you can always out spent them in R&D and revenue generation to stay a top.

I support the use of technology to exchange technology, but giving technology to another country to create allies or alliances is absolutely not.

28nm and 14nm processes are top-secret technologies that cannot be shared with anyone, unless foreign countries use technology of equivalent value to exchange (EG: aircraft technology...)
 

gadgetcool5

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Does anyone know what the wattage of the LPP light source China has reached with EUV research? This was the bottleneck of EUV for over a decade. Western sources were rather transparent. For instance, by 2011 Cymer had reached 11 W, by 2013 ASML had reached 55 W, by 2016 it reached 200 W. Once it reached 250 W it enabled EUV. The key to increasing wattage was prepulse”—a low-intensity laser that flattens each tin droplet into a pancake shape so that more of its area is hit by the main, vaporizing laser. The basic approach isn’t all that new—Cymer presented early results on the prepulse approach in 2011. But thanks to a combination of modeling and experimentation, ASML has been optimizing the process. “The reason why the progress has been so dramatic in the last year—maybe year and a half—is understanding the physics of what’s happening in that process,” says (ASML marketing director) Michael Lercel. “It’s a lot of things that really are at the cutting edge of the plasma physics.”

What physics is he referring to?

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BlackWindMnt

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I support the use of technology to exchange technology, but giving technology to another country to create allies or alliances is absolutely not.

28nm and 14nm processes are top-secret technologies that cannot be shared with anyone, unless foreign countries use technology of equivalent value to exchange (EG: aircraft technology...)
I don't mean giving away the tech I mean more like with ASML selling the equipment.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
No way that they will cooperate like that.
It can happen. The way geoeconomics are progressing, chips are becoming (already became?) the digital OPEC. Whoever controls chips/oil, controls a country's economy.

This is such an enormous vulnerability that medium/large countries will push aside differences to cooperate with each other in order to break free of such a thing.

Anyway, back to topic now
 

GodRektsNoobs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Does anyone know what the wattage of the LPP light source China has reached with EUV research? This was the bottleneck of EUV for over a decade. Western sources were rather transparent. For instance, by 2011 Cymer had reached 11 W, by 2013 ASML had reached 55 W, by 2016 it reached 200 W. Once it reached 250 W it enabled EUV. The key to increasing wattage was prepulse”—a low-intensity laser that flattens each tin droplet into a pancake shape so that more of its area is hit by the main, vaporizing laser. The basic approach isn’t all that new—Cymer presented early results on the prepulse approach in 2011. But thanks to a combination of modeling and experimentation, ASML has been optimizing the process. “The reason why the progress has been so dramatic in the last year—maybe year and a half—is understanding the physics of what’s happening in that process,” says (ASML marketing director) Michael Lercel. “It’s a lot of things that really are at the cutting edge of the plasma physics.”

What physics is he referring to?

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All I remember is HIT reaching 150W in 2018 under laboratory settings. Then HIT was sanctioned by US and afterwards everything fell silent. It's probably not a good idea to talk about this even if you know insider information.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Interesting commentary about R&D buckets:

Screen Capture_select-area_20211003124303.png

IMO, this is why China will find it hard to catch up. Still, I believe China should attempt to do so. Why? Because in the process of attempting mission impossible, it will upgrade its R&D infrastructure.

All I remember is HIT reaching 150W in 2018 under laboratory settings. Then HIT was sanctioned by US and afterwards everything fell silent. It's probably not a good idea to talk about this even if you know insider information.

Under laboratory settings means very little, since those numbers in my post were sustained levels. You can reach a short burst of high wattage easily, but it doesn't suffice for actual production quality. The machine must be able to process a certain number of wafers per hour. Also, if your lithography machine is dependent on your company not being sanctioned by the US, might as well buy from Qualcomm.
 
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