Chinese semiconductor industry

ansy1968 said:

@Topazchen Richard Chang and Lee Mong Song had bet big and came out as the big winner, aside from the monetary compensation the nation gratitude both of them will be remembered as the people behind the Chinese IC development, an acknowledgement that will attached their legacy. Bro with this as a pretext will you think a lot of TSMC engineer will cross over the mainland to work?

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if China pay
* 1x, perhaps not
* 2x, >50% will go
* 3x, ready to fly tomorrow or today

so money talks, really the bs walks away

Most (>99%) Taiwanese top engineers are Han Chinese, moving to China is as easy as moving from Scotland to England

No cultural or language barrier at all, the same people, the same culture, the same values (Confucius), the same skin colour, etc

ansy1968 said:

@FairAndUnbiased bro how much harder will the US push? I'm really intrigue on your previous post and it led me to think it will be the catalyst of America decline as the first pillar of US hegemony the $ is wobbling. Surely with the sample of Meng being resolve in Chinese favor, they surely had developed some backbone? Now I think both TW , SK and now JP see the true value of China and in a Multi Polar world.

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If the IC companies refuse, then the US Gov can invoke its Defense Production Act which will allow it to force the companies to reveal the info.

As you said, it depends on how much the US wants to push on this

WTAN said:

The latest Huawei news is that Huawei 5G Mobile Phones will be back in 1st Quarter 2022 equipped with a China Made 5G Radio Frequency Chip.

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Is there a source for this ?

Overbom said:

If the IC companies refuse, then the US Gov can invoke its Defense Production Act which will allow it to force the companies to reveal the info.

As you said, it depends on how much the US wants to push on this

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@Overbom bro if they did then what @FairAndUnbiased previous analysis will happen, cause both TSMC and Samsung hold nearly 40% of global production plus the underlining chip crisis. Two can play the game and SK will defend its champion, let's see if the Semiconductor association form by the US will last long, while Tsai instead of defending TSMC will talk with Biden regarding her dogs Bella, Bunny and Maru and exchange ideas.

MortyandRick said:

Is there a source for this ?

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They need a 5G radio frequency chip.

You don't need a source. The facts are all out there. Most of the facts.

The cell phones need a processor chip because the phone is a computer so it needs a CPU chip, and since it is a 5G phone it needs a 5G capable radio frequency chip.



According to the above link, a few companies sell a 7nm chip for 5G radio frequency. Huawei has to do that themselves, which means they probably will get SMIC to fabricated it.

Here is an old tear down of a Huawei phone. Beside the RF chip, the processor chip is needed too, which Hauwei will probably get from SMIC too, which should be at 7nm.


So we see if all those stories are true, and when production of 7nm chips from SMIC will happen.

Actually what I would like to see is someone smuggle such chips from somewhere else. Then the crapola will hit the fanola.

Sounds like fun.

Nutrient said:

It doesn't matter if ASML's machines are better for the next few years. China will be switching to locally made hardware as quickly as possible -- even if the local stuff is not as good initially -- as ASML has proven to be an unreliable supplier.

As the largest semiconductor market in the world by far is in the Middle Kingdom, losing this market will cost ASML a lot of revenue and will therefore seriously impair the company's ability to fund development of future products. Therefore, in just a few years ASML will begin to fall behind its Chinese competition; this will cause the company to lose even more revenue, causing it to fall behind yet more, and so on in a losing spiral.

If you are ASML, I suggest you enjoy your triumphant bragging for as long as possible, because the hard times are coming for you.

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Just that like that other daydreamer, you are living in La La land.

People on this forum were saying that TSMC will suffer because of lost Huawei business. Looking at their revenue in the last year, TSMC had a terrific year and has never been doing better.

Right now, Chinese companies make up only a very small share of the Chinese semiconductor market. In order for ASML to lose its China revenue, China will have to mandate to Samsung, SK Hynx, TSMC and others to stop using ASML systems and start buying Chinese (or Japanese?), for their fabs in China. Otherwise, by natural market forces, it will take a very long time before they are competitive in performance and productivity.

nlalyst said:

Just that like that other daydreamer, you are living in La La land.

People on this forum were saying that TSMC will suffer because of lost Huawei business. Looking at their revenue in the last year, TSMC had a terrific year and has never been doing better.

Right now, Chinese companies make up only a very small share of the Chinese semiconductor market. In order for ASML to lose its China revenue, China will have to mandate to Samsung, SK Hynx, TSMC and others to stop using ASML systems and start buying Chinese (or Japanese?), for their fabs in China. Otherwise, by natural market forces, it will take a very long time before they are competitive in performance and productivity.

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Any specific numbers to back your assertions? Just claiming something doesn't make it true.

nlalyst said:

In order for ASML to lose its China revenue, China will have to mandate to Samsung, SK Hynx, TSMC and others to stop using ASML systems and start buying Chinese (or Japanese?), for their fabs in China. Otherwise, by natural market forces, it will take a very long time before they are competitive in performance and productivity.

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That's what will happen and just like the US restricting Chinese solar equipment so that American firms can compete ,the Chinese government will use the American playbook to make Chinese semiconductor companies competitive .What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

WTAN said:

This is the price you pay for being a US Vassal State.
Toshiba of Japan (A US Vassal State) was also robbed blind of their IP which was then handed over to their US Competitors.
Today the USG will demand their Client list and Yield Data.
Next the USG will demand their IP.
In the future the USG will demand that Samsung and TSMC be sold for a song to their US competitors.
This is the US playbook for technological dominance.
It is wise for China to build their own Semiconductor Development and Manufacturing ecosystem with its own IP and locally made Production Tools.
Taiwan and Samsung under pressure from the US Govt may eventually have to depend more on China in order just to survive.

The latest Huawei news is that Huawei 5G Mobile Phones will be back in 1st Quarter 2022 equipped with a China Made 5G Radio Frequency Chip.

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Is it going to be the Huawei P60? Who will make the cpu for them?

FairAndUnbiased said:

Any specific numbers to back your assertions? Just claiming something doesn't make it true.

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They are available for free on TSMC's website:

2Q20 sales: 319,699 (NT$)
2Q21 sales: 372,145 (NT$), 19.8% YoY. In US$, second quarter 2021 sales were up 28% YoY.

For 2021, TSMC expects revenue growth of >20%. So much for them suffering because of Huawei.