Chinese semiconductor industry

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horse

Colonel
Registered Member
OMG China, you should just surrender now!
You really don't get the point.

If the USA restrict the trade/financial transfer with other country then the USA/other country exchange rate will collapse.

And this is only one tool.

So, if a country trade in dollar, save in dollar, buying financial instruments in dollar then she is controlled by the USA FED and government, and to overgrow the USA in this relation has the same chance like a slave getting richer than his/her master.

The USA dollar is the coordinate system, everything related to that, and the USA has the tool for coordinate transformations that they fit they need - everyone else just follow them since 1971.
Are you serious?

:oops:
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Sure, the Hegemon can stop China from using USD. Where can American’s get their underwear from? cellphones? Toiletries? Pots and pans? Furnitures? Pretty sure almost everything has some Chinese components in it. If China can’t use USD anymore, how long you think will take for everyone other than the Hegemon will come up with an alternative SWIFT to do business with each other?

Why you think the Hegemon is so freak out about Ant Financial and digital Yuan? People use dollar because of convenience, inertia and holder of value. Ant Financial and DCEP takes care of the first issue. As for the holder of value, with the Hegemon printing money like crazy, how long till people start to question the USD’s value?
Back in the day, sometimes we read that the Soviets exchanged some materials for socks from China, on a train car in a barter deal.

If China cannot use the US Dollar anymore, guess a company like Wal-Mart will have to conduct all its China business in RMB.

In that type of financial war, what choice does Wal-Mart have?

What would the US Dollar be worth? Who knows. The supply and demand thingy still applies. The demand for dollars goes down due to a significant portion of the world economy being barred from using dollars.

Then the supply of dollars continues upwards because of QE ...

:D
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Talking about demand for dollar is based on petro dollar as the most used commodity in the world. But petroleum based economy is coming to and end soon Now even big integrated company like BP and Shell is jettisoning the oil industry because they believe that by 2030 the use of oil will decline precipitiously and they now don't invest in oil industry anymore. More and more countries are legislating No gasoline car California forbid IC engine by 2030 Soon other state will follow

So if there is no demand for oil there is no demand for dollars
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Talking about demand for dollar is based on petro dollar as the most used commodity in the world. But petroleum based economy is coming to and end soon Now even big integrated company like BP and Shell is jettisoning the oil industry because they believe that by 2030 the use of oil will decline precipitiously and they now don't invest in oil industry anymore. More and more countries are legislating No gasoline car California forbid IC engine by 2030 Soon other state will follow

So if there is no demand for oil there is no demand for dollars

That is true, but while the US still has the US Navy to control the world's seas they might resort to blockades or embargoes to skew the world's economy. I mean just look at Venezuela or Iran as an example. This is why China not only has to boost its economy but also has to improve its Navy so they can counter the US. Not necessarily over the entire world but in the regions of its interest.

Oil should decrease in importance eventually but this might take a decade.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
If China cannot use the US Dollar anymore, guess a company like Wal-Mart will have to conduct all its China business in RMB.

I don't understand the ways of Wall MArt to get RMB.


The USA can use its currency to buy stuff because the Chinese buying USA financial instruments.

They can buy these because the USA running trade deficits - buying more stuff that making, and the difference financed with selling USA financial assets to Chinese.

This gives lot of dollars to the Chinese (and many other) hands to conduct international deals in dollar, without the danger of facing 97 type Asian financial crisis.

Now, how can USA accumulate Chinese financial assets to use RMB to conduct the international trade , without the USA running trade surplus, and China running trade deficit ?

The other option should be that the Chinese gives RMB loans to USA, but that makes in short (5-10 years) Asian financial crisis type events , but with the USA suffering huge drop in exchange rate, and afterwards huge surge in export due to the cheap dollar.


So ? What would be preferred ?
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
I suspect it is more complicated than that. EDA tools are across a wide gamut. I suspect what that project made was basically a compiler of sorts which turns the EDA design into low level instructions for the machine tools to make the chip. Rather than being an high end logic design or verification tool or whatever. If you are designing smartphone SoCs or any other SoC which uses an ARM designed core how will you get the softcore datafiles you licensed from ARM into your fully native EDA toolchain eh? It isn't as simple as that.
I think China needs to somehow put a damper into NVIDIA's ARM acquisition or this will be another major sticking point.
With regards to the EDA vendors you just need to pirate the software it's as simple as that. It's not like it can be sold to you anyway so any court claims of loss of revenue or whatever would be bunk. If China has its own compiler of those files into the tapeout to be sent to the factory who knows which EDA design tools were used until the final file was generated? It's a don't ask don't tell situation.
I suppose Huawei can continue to pirate US EDA Software only as long as it manufactures Chips it has already developed using the ARM Architecture. Huawei has already been banned from using ARM in future Chip designs so it will have to use its own self Developed EDA Software for any new Chip designs.

Huawei will very likely develop its future semiconductor products using the MIPS Architecture and make it compatible to its Harmony OS. RISC V is also an option but less likely.
All these new Chip designs will be done on its own EDA Software.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi WTAN,

Who FAB their chips, SMIC?

from cnTechPost

Chinese chip maker Loongson says it has more than 1,000 partners
2020-10-11 11:45:07 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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Chinese chip maker Loongson says it has more than 1,000 partners-cnTechPost

To date, Loongson Technology has more than 1,000 eco-partners, the Chinese chip maker said, adding that he Loongson Adaptation Alliance, which was set up in July this year, has attracted more than 50 tech giants.

Loongson is setting up adaptation centers across the country to provide services such as adaptation environment, construction solutions, technical support, talent training, adaptation experience and solution sharing, the company said in an article posted on its official
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account on Saturday.

Currently, Loongson has adaptation centers in more than 20 provinces, cities and autonomous regions nationwide.
In the past two years, Loongson said it has completed thousands of product mutual recognition with its partners.
In September this year, Loongson completed another 57 product adaptations with 34 vendors, spanning big data, cloud platforms, security, safety, storage, office and other fields.
The Loongson Chip is designed based on the MIPS Architecture and is actually made by STMicroelectronics in a FAB in Europe using the 28nm process.
I can imagine that once SMICs 28nm Localised FAB is completed next year, Loongson might consider shifting production of some products to SMIC for security reasons.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sure, the Hegemon can stop China from using USD. Where can American’s get their underwear from? cellphones? Toiletries? Pots and pans? Furnitures? Pretty sure almost everything has some Chinese components in it. If China can’t use USD anymore, how long you think will take for everyone other than the Hegemon will come up with an alternative SWIFT to do business with each other?

Why you think the Hegemon is so freak out about Ant Financial and digital Yuan? People use dollar because of convenience, inertia and holder of value. Ant Financial and DCEP takes care of the first issue. As for the holder of value, with the Hegemon printing money like crazy, how long till people start to question the USD’s value?

Yes. They can. But they won't. not because they can't buy what ever you named from other countries. But because it opens the door to a financial war. Only reason why China cannot undermine the dollar is because they are part of that system. China sells stuff priced in dollars to other countries. If US bans China from using dollars. China will price those exports in some other currency driving down demand for USD.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I suppose Huawei can continue to pirate US EDA Software only as long as it manufactures Chips it has already developed using the ARM Architecture. Huawei has already been banned from using ARM in future Chip designs so it will have to use its own self Developed EDA Software for any new Chip designs.

Huawei will very likely develop its future semiconductor products using the MIPS Architecture and make it compatible to its Harmony OS. RISC V is also an option but less likely.
All these new Chip designs will be done on its own EDA Software.

Huawei can just do what Apple does and get an ARM ISA license and design their own ARM compatible processor core.
I doubt that would have any US content to get banned.
The main problem with ARM is that NVIDIA is going to acquire it and more BS will happen for sure.

I think RISC-V would be an interesting choice but the problem with that is binary compatibility with existing applications. Intel tried for years to compete against ARM in the smartphone sector and even paid Lenovo to use their chips but because running Android applications on x86 required binary dynamic translation from ARM it just wasn't competitive. Of course if Huawei forces application developers to recompile their applications to Harmony OS on that architecture that would solve that problem but porting software a lot of times isn't just as easy as that. As Intel discovered also.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The Loongson Chip is designed based on the MIPS Architecture and is actually made by STMicroelectronics in a FAB in Europe using the 28nm process.
I can imagine that once SMICs 28nm Localised FAB is completed next year, Loongson might consider shifting production of some products to SMIC for security reasons.

Yes, it is fabbed at STMicro using a 28nm FD-SOI process. So it might not be that easy to port to a SMIC 28nm process.
I think they would be better off designing their next chips for a SMIC process and jump to that straight away.

The Chinese state should support this since the proprietary rights to the MIPS architecture are owned by Chinese investors and Loongson has much less chance of infringing any Intel or AMD patents precisely because it is based on MIPS. Much like Transmeta.
 
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