Chinese semiconductor industry

AETHER said:

Update: Huawei denied this report

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409024058423869442

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Huawei is just being honest. Its first FAB wont be in Wuhan. It will be in Shanghai.
Huawei wants to keep this low key. Dont get some foreigners too excited.
When Huawei starts producing its own Kirin Chips, this will enrage many people in the US Admin who thought that Huawei was "finished".

weig2000 said:

Too many dubious or fake news about breakthrough in Chinese semiconductor these days, many in this thread too. I didn't even bother to point them out. Note a lot of these English news are sourced from very dubious Chinese sources, which are either very unreliable or just click-baits. Apply some judgement.

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Bullshit is a big part of business.

Suppose you are selling eggs. Then this regular customer, a grandma, says give me a special because that other guy around the corner is selling it to me for 50 cents cheaper. Give me my eggs! Cheap!

You give grandma the deal. Even though you got no idea if that is true or not.

So where exactly is China in the IC domestic efforts really at?

Companies in South Korea and Taiwan would really like to know.

There's some news making the rounds that TSMC planned expansion of its 28nm Nanjing fab has been placed on ice because it hasn't been able to get required US licenses for American content needed for the expansion. If true, I think it's a net positive for China's semiconductor industry, both from an equipment standpoint and for the fabs.

krautmeister said:

There's some news making the rounds that TSMC planned expansion of its 28nm Nanjing fab has been placed on ice because it hasn't been able to get required US licenses for American content needed for the expansion. If true, I think it's a net positive for China's semiconductor industry, both from an equipment standpoint and for the fabs.

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Defintely positive for the Chinese IC companies. If it cant even manage to get such an old process, 28nm, fab to be built, they should stay out of China.

krautmeister said:

There's some news making the rounds that TSMC planned expansion of its 28nm Nanjing fab has been placed on ice because it hasn't been able to get required US licenses for American content needed for the expansion. If true, I think it's a net positive for China's semiconductor industry, both from an equipment standpoint and for the fabs.

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@krautmeister bro another blessing, if SMEE DUVL is available TSMC will buy and contribute to its development. And again perfect timing as SMEE 28nm DUVL comes off the production line this year and more next year. So the US hubris had given us another gift in a silver platter

WTAN said:

The 02 Special Project seems to have gone pretty well with all contractors delivering their products on time for integration last year.
I think the EUVL project should perform just as well and on budget.
The Government seems to be spending big to cover all areas, from EUVL to next Generation IC Materials.
This shows the Govt has a long term vision for the Semiconductor Industry.
The big question is of course the next generation materials for IC's.
It is costly to develop new materials and an entire new process and new machinery will have to be created to manufacture it.
When this happens and a new material has been selected, China will have done a full Decoupling in the Semiconductor Industry.

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China must do full decoupling. It must demonstrate that it has ample domestic substitutes in the semiconductor manufacturing industry, from various substances such as photoresists and etching substances, through to manufacturing equipment such as the ones used to produce the ingots and the ones used for DUV and EUV lithography, including major components like the lasers, reflective and/or refractive lenses, and of course the companies capable of producing the high end semiconductors when supplied with state of the art semiconductor manufacturing equipment.

ansy1968 said:

@krautmeister bro another blessing, if SMEE DUVL is available TSMC will buy and contribute to its development. And again perfect timing as SMEE 28nm DUVL comes off the production line this year and more next year. So the US hubris had given us another gift in a silver platter

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Of course it would be better if SMEE could satisfay China's needs for mature processes. Problem is its 28nm litography equipment is still being developed and tested. SMEE will need years to produce all the equipment needed to cope with China's needs in 28nm chips. It is fantastic that it is so close to effectively deliver the 28nm litography equipment. But it is a long, long way to take care of China's market on its own.

China accounts for over 50% of the world's chip consumption. It will take years for SMEE to produce the same amount of equipment that, for example, ASML produces.

It is not just a matter of development the technology. After the technology is developed, there is another step which is industrial production.

I think it is regrettable that TSMC cannot go ahead with its 28nm project. It will delay China arriving at the 70% self sufficiency in chips.

On the other hand, it means China's market will be exclusivity of SMEE and other semiconductor equipament manufacturers.

As everything else in life, there are two points of view to each fact.

jfcarli said:

Of course it would be better if SMEE could satisfay China's needs for mature processes. Problem is its 28nm litography equipment is still being developed and tested. SMEE will need years to produce all the equipment needed to cope with China's needs in 28nm chips. It is fantastic that it is so close to effectively deliver the 28nm litography equipment. But it is a long, long way to take care of China's market on its own.

China accounts for over 50% of the world's chip consumption. It will take years for SMEE to produce the same amount of equipment that, for example, ASML produces.

It is not just a matter of development the technology. After the technology is developed, there is another step which is industrial production.

I think it is regrettable that TSMC cannot go ahead with its 28nm project. It will delay China arriving at the 70% self sufficiency in chips.

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TSMC strategy has morphed from a mostly business strategy into a geostrategic containment strategy influenced by the US government. Their expansion of 5nm and then 3nm fabs in the US, while simultaneously planning 28nm expansion in China, is clearly designed to further US strategic goals vis-a-vis China. It is not an independent company's business plan, it is a US State Department designed plan to suppress and destroy China's semiconductor equipment industry. US foreign policy towards China was once using the carrot and stick strategy. Now, it's a hammer and sledgehammer strategy.

Bottom line, the self-sufficiency goal is just a target. It is not absolutely necessary. What is essential is domestic commercialization for all core components of semiconductor equipment and core IC technology. These are fundamental parts of what the US uses to control the world. Power that the US government never hesitates to abuse. Even if China achieved 70% or 100% self-sufficiency in chips, it would always be threatened and successfully harmed without the core equipment and IC designs it currently does not have.

krautmeister said:

There's some news making the rounds that TSMC planned expansion of its 28nm Nanjing fab has been placed on ice because it hasn't been able to get required US licenses for American content needed for the expansion. If true, I think it's a net positive for China's semiconductor industry, both from an equipment standpoint and for the fabs.

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Yes.....this delay by TSMC is a blessing for China.
A huge expansion by TSMC of the 28nm FABS would affect the business of SMIC, Huahong etc.
This will also affect the business of SMEE and other Chinese Semiconsuctor Equipment manufacturers as TSMC will always use ASML and other American Equipment in their FABS.
This is not a WIN WIN but LOSE LOSE for China.
Chinese Govt should consider forcing foreign IC manufacturers in China to use local equipment especially for mature Nodes.