Chinese semiconductor industry

BoraTas said:

China both lacked the resources and human capital until the 2010s

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Another miracle by Xi (big gov push). Man if that guy wasn't president, China would now be in deep deep poo. The Chinese should build a monument for him lol

Anyway, I agree that the recent achievements by China are extraordinary for this very short period of time. I also expect that China will rapidly close the tech gap with the US. The only question is how long it will take

voyager1 said:

Another miracle by Xi (big gov push). Man if that guy wasn't president, China would now be in deep deep poo. The Chinese should build a monument for him lol

Anyway, I agree that the recent achievements by China are extraordinary for this very short period of time. I also expect that China will rapidly close the tech gap with the US. The only question is how long it will take

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GNSS, precise CNC, tunnel boring machine, defense industry, nuclear tech and space tech story all over again. China is no stranger to tech denials at all.

BoraTas said:

The CPC doesn't hold absolute power in China. Their ability to force the private sector is limited. There were incentives for semiconductor development in China since the 80s. China both lacked the resources and human capital until the 2010s. This recent push was actually started in 2014 and the things achieved in the last 6 years are nothing short of extraordinary. I remember discussions about China's layered NAND technology from 2016. High-level managers from the industry were expecting China to achieve 32-layer NAND in 2020 at best and some were even arguing that China will never achieve it. Then China achieved 128 layers in 2020.

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Which Chinese brands are making 128 layers nand for SSD? Where can you buy them?

Oldschool said:

Writing is on the wall, any country across 60% of US, US will attack. It happened to Soviet, japan
Any aspiring country doesnt prepare that, then it's that country fault for being dumb.
Depending on international is unprepared.

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It is time for them to include uncounted economic activities in their gdp.

Xsizor said:

If the Chinese government weren't naive, they wouldn't have thought / carried on as if US suddenly became China's sibling ready to sing Kumbaya holding hands with other nations. The way ZTE was swatted, Huawei was swatted, SMIC was swatted all points to the obvious.

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Those Chinese companies are targeted by the Americans because they are number #1 in the world or in China, and they are kicking ass, and will continue to kick ass.

Are we going to blame the CCP for nurturing world leading companies? The Americans certainly have.

Tyler said:

Which Chinese brands are making 128 layers nand for SSD? Where can you buy them?

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@Tyler bro YMTC and I think they also recently develop a more advance 192 layers

Yangtze River Storage will overtake Samsung Micron this year?Trial production of 192-layer NAND in the middle of the year | TechNews​

January 11, 2021 18:45 by

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Yangtze Memory Technologies Co., Ltd., a large Chinese memory manufacturer, has reported that its output will double this year, and plans to put into production of advanced chips, leveraging Samsung Electronics Co. and other leaders.

On the 12th, the Nikkei Asian Review quoted an unnamed source as reporting that Yangtze Memory plans to double the monthly output of memory chips to 100,000 silicon wafers in the second half of 2021, accounting for approximately 7% of global output. In comparison, Samsung, the world’s largest NAND flash memory manufacturer, has a monthly output of 480,000 silicon wafers, while the largest US memory manufacturer Micron Technology, Inc. has a monthly output of 180,000 silicon wafers. .
In addition to expanding the production of existing chips, YMTC also intends to accelerate the process of technological development. According to sources, YMTC will trial produce the first batch of 192-layer 3D NAND flash memory as soon as mid-2021. The current production is 64-layer and 128-layer Wafer.
Although the plan may be delayed until the second half of 2021 and it will take time to ensure the quality of the quantity and product, this timetable is still a big step forward for Chinese local chip manufacturers. Samsung and Micron are still working hard to develop 176-layer 3D NAND, and the most advanced version of energy production is 128-layer chips.
The 192-layer chips in the YMTC storage plan are indeed advanced by definition than Samsung and Micron. However, market observers are still cautious and believe that we should see whether the performance and quality of YMTC storage products can surpass the leaders. YMTC announced the completion of development in April 2020, and mass-produced 128-layer NAND at the end of the same year. The news shows that the current yield is about 70%, and there is still room for improvement. Yangtze River Storage’s customers include Lenovo Group and Huawei.
IC Insights issued a research report on the 6th, pointing out that even if Yangtze River Storage (YMTC) and Changxin Storage (CXMT) strive to build new IC production lines, by 2025, more than 50% of ICs in China will be produced by foreign manufacturers. (Such as SK Hynix, Samsung, TSMC, UMC) foundry production.
(This article is reprinted with authorization from MoneyDJ News; source of the first

Xsizor said:

The government can indeed be blamed. China has seen how Japan was thwarted by the US. China also saw the huge revenue generated by US companies and IP in semiconductors, Softwares and Network. China has also witnessed the dot com boom and Internet revolution built upon a US pioneered technology.

If the Chinese government weren't naive, they wouldn't have thought / carried on as if US suddenly became China's sibling ready to sing Kumbaya holding hands with other nations. The way ZTE was swatted, Huawei was swatted, SMIC was swatted all points to the obvious.

Defending CCP isn't the topic of the thread. I don't want to discuss it. My position is quite rigid here.

As for 5G, Smartphone chipsets that use 5G aren't manufactured in China. Top line smartphones don't use Chinese chips. China created a network that will drive sales of foreign chips and interaction.

I hope Im wrong.

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The CCP can be blamed in the same sense that you can blame a kid for getting a 98 instead of 100 on a test when the class average is in the 30's. Did you really expect that China overtaking the US would be smooth and without struggle? That it's doable and happening at all is amazing. The Chinese government, with its limited influence over Chinese companies out to make money, was at least able to make sure that China put itself in a position where it has a good fighting chance to overcome America's tech war. And don't forget, this tech war is quite limited to only a few things that America can target because the Chinese government covered so many points so well. A lesser government could have left many more points open for sanctions and crumpled under the stress of having too many things to catch up on simultaneously. You are asking China to be perfect, to be impervious to all strain and laugh off all challenge. It's not realistic; the CCP is a young government and it still managed to get China to a place where Chinese scientists can kick things into overdrive to win, but you are saying they shouldn't even face this trial or tribulation. No other government is even able to give their scientists the chance to be the strongest in the world. You ask for perfection; you ask too much. No government in the world can fight China's fight. Be thankful for the fighting chance and use it.

BoraTas said:

The CPC doesn't hold absolute power in China. Their ability to force the private sector is limited. There were incentives for semiconductor development in China since the 80s. China both lacked the resources and human capital until the 2010s. This recent push was actually started in 2014 and the things achieved in the last 6 years are nothing short of extraordinary. I remember discussions about China's layered NAND technology from 2016. High-level managers from the industry were expecting China to achieve 32-layer NAND in 2020 at best and some were even arguing that China will never achieve it. Then China achieved 128 layers in 2020.

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Also, it seems that Chinese govt was quite content for having TSMC became the best and having local companies fabbed in TSMC instead of local fabs. Of couse, thats before english veggie + trump destroyed everything.

People here talk about industrial and technological development policy here like it’s a question of romantic partners that can be extremely nitpicky about.

Not a tech expert but this video below shows what happen when politics gets involved in business affair. In summary China is the main market and SMIC is her Champion, if all those FABS being built in the US become operational to whom it will sell? the US demand alone is not that big to absorb the increase capacity. And the current shortages is an artificial one due to the Chinese customer stocking up supply of chips (an ex. Huawei). A bust is coming and Mr Morris Chang is sounding the alarm and he is hedging his bets, if SMEE 28NM DUVL is proven that it is capable as the latest ASML DUVL, you bet that TSMC will used it and the Chinese gov't will encourage it. Cause Having an experience and world leading FABS company verifying your machine and the feedback will further enhanced your technological base.

And also its a sample of how the American operates, with excess capacity and investment when the bust came those company will be bankrupt and the American will have it for a song. That's a nice way of stealing others tech with other means...LOL

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