Chinese semiconductor industry

Xsizor said:

@Oldschool Is Huawei being supported in any way by the Chinese government in these troubling times. I'd expect them to do so. It's imperative that Huawei be sustained and kept from toppling down. So far, I've not read anything that points to even a passive support from the government. If true, why?

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Why would you say that Huawei is not supported? Huawei has gotten a lot of 5G contracts from the gov.

And dont forget that it sold its Honor mobile division to a "consortium" (gov was included ) for a dozen of billions (?). don't worry Gov will support Huawei as long as it is really innovating. Ublike these "tech" companies who compete between themselves to make life miserable for the small businesses (Alibaba, Meituan, Tencent etc).

Huawei will be supported, and those bs "tech" companies will all be investigated and punished for making life harder for the common people instead of making real R&D like Huawei

voyager1 said:

Why would you say that Huawei is not supported? Huawei has gotten a lot of 5G contracts from the gov.

And dont forget that it sold its Honor mobile division to a "consortium" (gov was included ) for a dozen of billions (?). don't worry Gov will support Huawei as long as it is really innovating. Ublike these "tech" companies who compete between themselves to make life miserable for the small businesses (Alibaba, Meituan, Tencent etc).

Huawei will be supported, and those bs "tech" companies will all be investigated and punished for making life harder for the common people instead of making real R&D like Huawei

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LOL. I wouldn't call Alibaba, Meituan and Tencent bs companies. They're huge contributors to Chinese domestic economy and profound transformation of the economy. They should be properly regulated due to their status of being "platform company" therefore tend to behave monopolistic-ally.

That said, China needs more companies like Huawei. The more the better.

voyager1 said:

Why would you say that Huawei is not supported? Huawei has gotten a lot of 5G contracts from the gov.

And dont forget that it sold its Honor mobile division to a "consortium" (gov was included ) for a dozen of billions (?). don't worry Gov will support Huawei as long as it is really innovating. Ublike these "tech" companies who compete between themselves to make life miserable for the small businesses (Alibaba, Meituan, Tencent etc).

Huawei will be supported, and those bs "tech" companies will all be investigated and punished for making life harder for the common people instead of making real R&D like Huawei

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OH, I forgot about these!
Guess I was taken aback at the news that Huawei was diverting its server chips to Cars.

I am in support of the decision to engage with Meituan. A lot of so called "Unicorn" companies (ride, deliver, food, credit, hotels, travel etc) are (personally speaking) just internet companies leveraging their online capabilities as part of a crafty scheme to take money from small businesses and traders. I agree that they are poor innovators and they don't strengthen the country comprehensively.

The government has its fair share of blame too. Hopefully, they recruit some good Semiconductor industry veteran as a core advisor when formulating national plans.

weig2000 said:

LOL. I wouldn't call Alibaba, Meituan and Tencent bs companies. They're huge contributors to Chinese domestic economy and profound transformation of the economy. They should be properly regulated due to their status of being "platform company" therefore tend to behave monopolistic-ally.

That said, China needs more companies like Huawei. The more the better.

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For the amount of money they make they are bs tech companies. Look at Huawei, started as a small player and suddenly the US was so afraid that they sanctioned it very hard. Pompeo was so scared that he made trips all over the world to convince these countries to ban Huawei, thats how much Huawei was scaring them

And now look at all these big companies who make dozens of billions in profit. They innovate yes, but they dont innovate so hard like their life depends on it. They innovate on how to squeeze the little guy more than their competitor will, not on core technologies that the US is super scared

Unless these companies start real R&D like Huawei, the gov should punish them all for their bs

Xsizor said:

OH, I forgot about these!
Guess I was taken aback at the news that Huawei was diverting its server chips to Cars.

I am in support of the decision to engage with Meituan. A lot of so called "Unicorn" companies (ride, deliver, food, credit, hotels, travel etc) are (personally speaking) just internet companies leveraging their online capabilities as part of a crafty scheme to take money from small businesses and traders. I agree that they are poor innovators and they don't strengthen the country comprehensively.

The government has its fair share of blame too. Hopefully, they recruit some good Semiconductor industry veteran as a core advisor when formulating national plans.

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1. The build out of the 5G standalone networks was a means to an end. The installation of 5G is not an end in itself.

What we are seeing and hearing from China, is the second part of this 5G story, the end users, how they will use this technology of 5G. This is not about Huawei pivoting to new business, this was always part of the plan. The installation of 5G will spawn all sorts of new businesses no one thought about. Huawei is going to fill that space, because they are right there doing it.

Huawei is achieving first mover advantage in the network build out and in applications.


2. The government cannot be blamed one bit, because hindsight is always 20/20. When people start trotting out the in hindsight arguments, there is not much there other than to cast blame.


3. Note, if what I wrote people thought this is bullshit, then do two things to enlighten us.

i) what is the state of the standalone 5G network build out in other countries

ii) what are the new 5G applications that are coming out of other countries

Oldschool said:

I understand more what's happening inside China than wannabe CCP party spokesperson , US living since youth and working in US hospital or clinics manqiangruxue. Members PM me say his behaviors is polluting the thread and disrupt people want to learn.

Lets going back to China semiconductor industry learning, should we?

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Lol I’m not the one who constantly derails threads into an endless circle jerk of self bloviation and verbal abuse. 小霸王嘴太大了吧.

Oldschool said:

$$$ why don't you focus exclusively on real estate and financial market. Oh yeah you told me you are into money management and economics.


What do you know about making country strong.

China is well known in the world for its internet companies prowess. Baidu, tencent, alibaba.

What kind of chemical and mechanical world class Chinese companies you talking about , dude?

The best companies in country will directly reflect it's education system

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I'm an electrical engineer by training and I currently do trade law. There's a fairly large group of chemical/mechanical exports by Chinese SMEs which is fairly visible in trade data. PetroChina, Sinopec, ChemChina, Bluestar, XCMG, Sany, etc are all fairly large chemical and mechanical firms based in China. Corporates in a country reflect *both* market conditions and educational attainment. US corporates had first mover advantage in the IC space, and it was efficient from Chinese EE/CS people to simply use US intermediaries to create their own products since there were no political considerations before. They are now. Now, you reuse that EE/CS talent to focus on IC and downstream since the incentive structure has changed.

Oldschool said:

New IC Universities like tsinghua IC and Nanjing IC University scrambling and popping up reflect it's old education system is inadequate.
Where Majority of it's talents in old education system goes to application software.

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And where would IC graduates work before? PhDs aren't created overnight. The talent was there but unorganized before. Now that there are altered market conditions, the talent is assembled and organized into university blocks. China's education system didn't fail. It's done very well. The market incentives just weren't there before

horse said:

2. The government cannot be blamed one bit, because hindsight is always 20/20. When people start trotting out the in hindsight arguments, there is not much there other than to cast blame.


3. Note, if what I wrote people thought this is bullshit, then do two things to enlighten us.

i) what is the state of the standalone 5G network build out in other countries

ii) what are the new 5G applications that are coming out of other countries

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The government can indeed be blamed. China has seen how Japan was thwarted by the US. China also saw the huge revenue generated by US companies and IP in semiconductors, Softwares and Network. China has also witnessed the dot com boom and Internet revolution built upon a US pioneered technology.

If the Chinese government weren't naive, they wouldn't have thought / carried on as if US suddenly became China's sibling ready to sing Kumbaya holding hands with other nations. The way ZTE was swatted, Huawei was swatted, SMIC was swatted all points to the obvious.

Defending CCP isn't the topic of the thread. I don't want to discuss it. My position is quite rigid here.

As for 5G, Smartphone chipsets that use 5G aren't manufactured in China. Top line smartphones don't use Chinese chips. China created a network that will drive sales of foreign chips and interaction.

I hope Im wrong.

Xsizor said:

The government can indeed be blamed. China has seen how Japan was thwarted by the US. China also saw the huge revenue generated by US companies and IP in semiconductors, Softwares and Network. China has also witnessed the dot com boom and Internet revolution built upon a US pioneered technology.

If the Chinese government weren't naive, they wouldn't have thought / carried on as if US suddenly became China's sibling ready to sing Kumbaya holding hands with other nations. The way ZTE was swatted, Huawei was swatted, SMIC was swatted all points to the obvious.

Defending CCP isn't the topic of the thread. I don't want to discuss it. My position is quite rigid here.

As for 5G, Smartphone chipsets that use 5G aren't manufactured in China. Top line smartphones don't use Chinese chips. China created a network that will drive sales of foreign chips and interaction.

I hope Im wrong.

Click to expand...

The CPC doesn't hold absolute power in China. Their ability to force the private sector is limited. There were incentives for semiconductor development in China since the 80s. China both lacked the resources and human capital until the 2010s. This recent push was actually started in 2014 and the things achieved in the last 6 years are nothing short of extraordinary. I remember discussions about China's layered NAND technology from 2016. High-level managers from the industry were expecting China to achieve 32-layer NAND in 2020 at best and some were even arguing that China will never achieve it. Then China achieved 128 layers in 2020.