Chinese semiconductor industry

lcompocida said:

I assume it was this article?

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Translation of article (paraphrased, obviously):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Domestic deep ultraviolet immersion lithography (DUV) has been assembled and completed, left assembly line.

• Shanghai Microelectronics was responsible for overall integration [of components]
• The ultra-precision grating system comes from Shanghai Institute of Optical Precision Machinery, Chinese Academy of Sciences.
• The lithography objective lens set is from Beijing Guowang Optical
• The light source is from Keyi Hong Yuan
• The immersion system is from Zhejiang Qi'er Mechanical and Electrical
• The double workpiece table is from Huazhuo Precision Technology

This lithography machine is 193nm ArF immersion deep UV lithography machine, which can be used for 28nm chip production. Multi-exposure can produce 14nm, 7nm, which can meet most of the chip manufacturing needs.

The lithography machine is over hundred million [USD?], the prototype is ready to be put into mass-production. prototype is in a commercial state, will not be placed in the corner to eat dust.

Initial yield during the beginning testing stages is lower, about 30%. Time waits for no one, so production companies should be subsidized. Low yield rate can be improved in production. If production is established, improvement is not a problem.

Thus, the main equipment and materials used for 28nm chip production have been localized. Before the end of this year, all-domestic 28nm production lines could be realized, and testing/development of 14nm and 7nm production may be carried out next year.

Development of EUV and DUV technologies are being carried out simultaneously (the scenario of "progression from finishing DUV development to starting EUV development" is not the case as both are being developed simultaneously, not one at a time). The development of EUV lithography machine a military directive, and is expected to be off the assembly line by 2023, the progress is apparently greatly ahead of schedule. By 2025, 80% of the chip localization may be realized."
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It seems everything is on-track according to this article, and confirms the alleged initial testing yield rate of 30% for SMEE's 28nm DUV lithography machine. Some of the timelines for EUV and chip production localization may be a little too optimistic in my view (EUV development may finish by 2025 at the earliest, and 80% chip localisation might only happen by 2030). @WTAN what do you think?

However, the veracity of this information should be confirmed....Chinese private media outlets are not great at citing their sources and sometimes can get their information wrong. I do not know how credible this news is, but I will go ahead and trust it.

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Yes, i think a proper EUV will only come out in 2025.
If something EUV related comes out in 2023 it will likely be a early model Production prototype similar to the first ASML EUVL NXE3100.
They will then build on this Production prototype and by adding more powerful Light Sources and making gradual improvements.
But of course who knows? The Harbin Inst 150W EUVL Light Source has been available for a number of years.
Forums are good sources of information but have to ensure that the Poster is related to a Research Institute or works for a Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturer.

WTAN said:

Yes, i think a proper EUV will only come out in 2025.
If something EUV related comes out in 2023 it will likely be a early model Production prototype similar to the first ASML EUVL NXE3100.
They will then build on this Production prototype and by adding more powerful Light Sources and making gradual improvements.
But of course who knows? The Harbin Inst 150W EUVL Light Source has been available for a number of years.
Forums are good sources of information but have to ensure that the Poster is related to a Research Institute or works for a Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturer.

Click to expand...

@WTAN Sir, good day, glad to hear from you again, have you had any news about the 14nm domestic equipment processes and its progress and if it can be completed within the year?

Chinese engineers are more known for their strength at application based on US underlying technology. Majority of them would go for BAT, Baidu, Alibaba and tencent, focus on applications.

This needs to be overhauled

This is Failure. CCP doesn't seem to know whats needed for education sector to foster tech independence overall general education for mass focusing too much on applications.





Should focus on fundamental science and applied physics such as building equipments rather than application of US chip.

The following would be a successful education course

Oldschool said:

Chinese engineers are more known for their strength at application based on US underlying technology. Majority of them would go for BAT, Baidu, Alibaba and tencent, focus on applications.

This needs to be overhauled

This is Failure. CCP doesn't seem to know whats needed for education sector to foster tech independence overall general education for mass focusing too much on applications.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Should focus on fundamental science and applied physics such as building equipments rather than application of US chip.

The following would be a successful education course

Click to expand...

This is irritating now. How many Chemical Engineers and Mechanical Engineers graduate from Chinese universities a year? Fighting economic efficiency when there are no political considerations is stupid. Systems integration earns $$$

Oldschool said:

Chinese engineers are more known for their strength at application based on US underlying technology. Majority of them would go for BAT, Baidu, Alibaba and tencent, focus on applications.

This needs to be overhauled

This is Failure. CCP doesn't seem to know whats needed for education sector to foster tech independence overall general education for mass focusing too much on applications.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Should focus on fundamental science and applied physics such as building equipments rather than application of US chip.

The following would be a successful education course

Click to expand...

Look man, research has to happen. If the US tools are better then that the fault of the Chinese companies for being so weak. And why dont Chinese companies sign partnerships with Universities, schools etc?

This means that Microsoft and other big US companies have a more sustainable long term vision and they want to cultivate talents from a young age. That the Chinese companies dont do this, it means that they dont have the same vision for the future.

The Gov can help, but the Chinese companies must do their part too, they cant just wait for free money

There are some people in this thread (and in this forum) who seem to believe the path to bettering oneself is found through the intimidation and retaliation against others rather than through a focus on bettering oneself.

Oldschool said:

Chinese engineers are more known for their strength at application based on US underlying technology. Majority of them would go for BAT, Baidu, Alibaba and tencent, focus on applications.

This needs to be overhauled

This is Failure. CCP doesn't seem to know whats needed for education sector to foster tech independence overall general education for mass focusing too much on applications.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Should focus on fundamental science and applied physics such as building equipments rather than application of US chip.

The following would be a successful education course

Click to expand...

This has already been answered twice (by me alone) but you keep repeating it as if it were a new insight each time. For skilled debaters (or people with common sense), continuing a conversation means to rebut your opponent by countering his arguments, not by repeating yours with some hope that the person who says it the most number of times wins.

"The environment before the tech war was one that rewarded internationalization and moving forward with what there was; the environment now in China is one that rewards replicating and enhancing the building blocks, so we will be seeing less of the former and more of the latter due to these forces."

"Well, that's when they were in an environment that encourages building upon a foundation that can be purchased from foreign parts. That environment has changed into one of self-reliance so in order to survive, they will adapt their skills to creating a Chinese foundation, or build upon a Chinese foundation that others create. I have already told you this but you only repeat the argument without actual rebuttal."

Here is the Japanese news about TSMC setting go shop in China for older processes. I wonder why?

TSMC will install new production lines at an existing plant in Nanjing, which are slated to begin mass-production in 2023 to meet the growing demand for 28-nanometer automotive chips.

Click to expand...

voyager1 said:

Here is the Japanese news about TSMC setting go shop in China for older processes. I wonder why?

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@voyager1 and bro the American car industry needed those Chips so maybe it was meant for export to the US?

ansy1968 said:

@voyager1 and bro the American car industry needed those Chips so maybe it was meant for export to the US?

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I dont think so. It should be for domestic. As the domestic EV market grows the number of chips required for each EV car is many times more than the diesel cars we have now.

So with all these Chinese EV companies making more cars every year, the TSMC will give them chips (as well to Tesla, VW etc)

Domestic EV companies have to shut down production due to lack of chips...