Chinese semiconductor industry

Oldschool · Apr 25, 2021

manqiangrexue or ZeEa5kpul

I am telling you, because Chinese students minds got corrupted by US tech training so when they become professionals they still relying on US tech.
The control board below is for national space program if you read the label. How dare they use US analog chips on that board. It's a total national security issue.

The mind corruption runs very deep and chinese government plays a big part of that.

Had Chinese engineers not been so mind corrupted by US tech training and self reliance , in my conservative estimate, 28nm immersion lithography can arrived 5 years earlier , 2015, before the tech war.

manqiangrexue · Apr 25, 2021

Oldschool said:
manqiangrexue or ZeEa5kpul

I am telling you, because Chinese students minds got corrupted by US tech training so when they become professionals they still relying on US tech.
The control board below is for national space program if you read the label. How dare they use US analog chips on that board. It's a total national security issue.

The mind corruption runs very deep and chinese government plays a big part of that.

This is not a reply to anything in the text that you quoted. It fails to continue the conversation. Why are you replying to me with random posts?

Your analysis is wrong and there is no problem with what China is doing. For China to quickly build a foundation in sciences that were rare in China, it needed to learn and understand the methods of the leading nations, which is why it sent students all over the world to learn. If China decided to develop everything from scratch, it would be much much slower, and it could result in a system that's too fundamentally different to integrate/operate with the systems around the world. So when China knew nothing, it learned from the best, and when it created a solid foundation for itself, it can begin to decouple and develop its own. If learning from the US was corrupting Chinese technological minds, America would welcome Chinese tech students; instead, it fears them and wishes to limit Chinese international students in the US to non-STEM subjects.

Oldschool said:
Had Chinese engineers not been so mind corrupted by US tech training and self reliance , in my conservative estimate, 28nm immersion lithography can arrived 5 years earlier , 2015, before the tech war.

Your estimate is random and meaningless. Before the tech war, there was no serious drive to indigenize lithography. Time is not what was lacking; it was reason.

Oldschool · Apr 25, 2021

manqiangrexue said:
This is not a reply to anything in the text that you quoted. Why are you tagging me in random posts?

And there is no problem with what China is doing. For China to quickly build a foundation in sciences that were rare in China, it needed to learn and understand the methods of the leading nations, which is why it sent students all over the world to learn. If China decided to develop everything from scratch, it would be much much slower, and it could result in a system that's too fundamentally different to integrate/operate with the systems around the world. So when China knew nothing, it learned from the best, and when it created a solid foundation for itself, it can begin to decouple and develop its own. If learning from the US was corrupting Chinese technological minds, America would welcome Chinese tech students; instead, it fears them and wishes to limit Chinese international students in the US to non-STEM subjects.

Your estimate is random and meaningless.

Your words are meaningless. A picture is worth a thousand words. Can't be denied.

Once Chinese engineering minds got corrupted , they rely on US hardwares and they most focus on application side.

That's the main problem. They are not learning from the best and duplicate it instead they build application on top of it.

What about using US chips on national space program. You don't think that's security issue? Yes or No. I have a feeling you are avoiding tough question.

manqiangrexue · Apr 25, 2021

Oldschool said:
Your words are meaningless.

If they are, it's because they were wasted debunking a pretend expert/landlord/pilot's incorrect analysis and random conclusion.

Oldschool said:
A picture is worth a thousand words. Can't be denied.

I deny it. Pictures can be quite meaningless if taken out of context, interpreted incorrectly, dated improperly, etc...

Oldschool said:
Once Chinese engineering minds got corrupted , they rely on US hardwares and they most focus on application side.

That's the main problem. They are not learning from the best and duplicate it instead they build application on top of it.

While low level tech might have learned nothing except to buy a part and plug it and go from there, it is known all over the world that Chinese students have learned foreign tech to come back to China and build alternatives. (Hell, there are even useless "tech experts" who are at the end of their careers, have contributed nothing, but seek respect from posting shallow and oftentimes incorrect analyses on forums.) There are no absolutes on either side, and even those who build on top of American tech have the knowledge to be useful in other endeavors such as replicating the tech when the situation calls for it. The environment before the tech war was one that rewarded internationalization and moving forward with what there was; the environment now in China is one that rewards replicating and enhancing the building blocks, so we will be seeing less of the former and more of the latter due to these forces.

Oldschool · Apr 25, 2021

manqiangrexue said:
If they are, it's because they were wasted debunking a pretend expert/landlord/pilot's incorrect analysis and random conclusion.

I deny it. Pictures can be quite meaningless if taken out of context, interpreted incorrectly, dated improperly, etc...

While low level tech might have learned nothing except to buy a part and plug it and go from there, it is known all over the world that Chinese students have learned foreign tech to come back to China and build alternatives. (Hell, there are even useless "tech experts" who are at the end of their careers, have contributed nothing, but seek respect from posting shallow and oftentimes incorrect analyses on forums.) There are no absolutes on either side, and even those who build on top of American tech have the knowledge to be useful in other endeavors such as replicating the tech when the situation calls for it. The environment before the tech war was one that rewarded internationalization and moving forward with what there was; the environment now in China is one that rewards replicating and enhancing the building blocks, so we will be seeing less of the former and more of the latter due to these forces.

You are not answering my question.
Space program is a national security issue.

US China clash is destined, inevitable. Government should able to project many years ago.

weig2000 · Apr 25, 2021

@Bltizo @Deino can you guys take a look at this thread and do something about it?

manqiangrexue · Apr 25, 2021

Oldschool said:
You are not answering my question.

What is your question?

Oldschool said:
Space program is a national security issue.

Are you saying there are backdoors for sabotage or that China couldn't replicate these parts fast enough?

Also, space station is actually mostly scientific and very little application; halting this project will not thwart China in any meaningful or core way.

Oldschool said:
US China clash is destined, inevitable. Government should able to project many years ago.

Able to project what? Your standards are high for everyone else, asking people to be clairvoyant, but very low for yourself, posting incorrect or shallow analysis.

Oldschool · Apr 25, 2021

weig2000 said:
@Bltizo @Deino can you guys take a look at this thread and do something about it?

It's very legitimate question as why China didn't prepare well for the US and China clash.

Its rooted at their education system.
Chinese government plays a big role

What's your take on this? The other guy thinks Chinese government is all great.

Oldschool · Apr 25, 2021

manqiangrexue said:
What is your question?

Are you saying there are backdoors for sabotage or that China couldn't replicate these parts fast enough?

Also, space station is actually mostly scientific and very little application; halting this project will not thwart China in any meaningful or core way.

Able to project what? Your standards are high for everyone else, asking people to be clairvoyant, but very low for yourself, posting incorrect or shallow analysis.

Part of beidou system.

Chinese military also use western parts

manqiangrexue · Apr 25, 2021

Oldschool said:
It's very legitimate question as why China didn't prepare well for the US and China clash.

Its rooted at their education system.

Who prepared better? Which country is rising faster than China? You are, once again, lamenting that a hero is not a God. Raise standards for yourself, not other people.

Oldschool said:
Part of beidou system.

You said I didn't answer your question; I asked what your question was and this is how you respond?

Beidou is already up. Are you saying there is danger of sabotage from backdoors? From the last post:

"Are you saying there are backdoors for sabotage or that China couldn't replicate these parts fast enough?"

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