Chinese semiconductor industry

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Whats the deal with Hua Hong semiconductor? SMIC grabs all the attention, but this firm is also capable of 28nm. Is there a reason it doesnt get more attention?

Hua Hong has a lot less capacity and older manufacturing processes. Hua Hong has 4 fabs of which only one uses 300mm wafers plus another 300mm fab at Hauli. Their best process is 28nm. SMIC has 7 fabs of which 4 use 300mm wafers. Their best mass manufactured process is 14nm with N+1 ramping up right now.

There is a big gap between 28nm and 14nm since you need FinFET 3D transistor and different processes so it is a lot more difficult than previous planar transistor processes.

Hua Hong, formerly Grace Semiconductor, had a shitton of state support but it never had the same amount of success because quite simply the founders had a lot less semiconductor fabrication and industry experience regardless of their political connections.
 
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Orthan

Senior Member
Can you at least provide some evidence to back up?
Higher labour costs will eventually erode a country´s efficiency advantage when it comes to manufacture, specially a country that doesnt have a high technology base, or just leverage its position to get other countries companies to transfer their tech. China has the second largest economy in the world, but how many chinese brands do people in the west know, outside of smartphones/tablets/PC ?

Global supply chains jump from country to country, always following the cheap labour. Eventually it will happen to china too.

Unfortunately for Africa, (maybe India) and other low-income countries, the China model of cheap manufactoring will not be possible to imitate in order to get richer because ofbthe 4th Industrial Revolution (automation, digitization, 5G etc)
Dont be so sure about that.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
...how many chinese brands do people in the west know, outside of smartphones/tablets/PC ?

You forgot DJI (drones). A few years back we did not even know those brands. Give it another decade.
There are lot of Chinese companies which are presently not well known in the West but have huge export potential like BYD. Then there are companies like Haier where you might have purchased a product from them but not even known about it.

The Chinese industry has a huge footprint in contract manufacturer work where Chinese suppliers basically do everything except the badge design. They have a catalog of hardware designs and the only thing the Western companies does is pick one and send them the badge design. It is not just Taiwanese and other Asian contractors like Foxconn in China. China has gone over in the supplier chain and now manufactures components, not just final assembly, Chinese companies manufacture LCD panels, solar PV cells, and lithium battery cells.
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
You forgot DJI (drones). A few years back we did not even know those brands. Give it another decade.
There are lot of Chinese companies which are presently not well known in the West but have huge export potential like BYD. Then there are companies like Haier where you might have purchased a product from them but not even known about it.

The Chinese industry has a huge footprint in contract manufacturer work where Chinese suppliers basically do everything except the badge design. They have a catalog of hardware designs and the only thing the Western companies does is pick one and send them the badge design. It is not just Taiwanese and other Asian contractors like Foxconn in China. China has gone over in the supplier chain and now manufactures components, not just final assembly, Chinese companies manufacture LCD panels, solar PV cells, and lithium battery cells.
Why do you think there hasnt been a Mavic 3 by now? In fact Mavic 3 was supposed to come out in 2019, but DJI only debutted a new Mavic mini under 250 grams...

Then in 2020 they didnt release anything new or groundbreaking

Now in 2021 still no Mavic 3, but they released a FPV....

Ask yourself why? Because FPV is like the manual sportcar, it doesnt need all those AI intelligence modes...

The DJI Mavic line uses Movidius AI chips for all its AI functionality...

Movidius was bought by Intel

All US has to do is a blanket chip embargo and the Mavic will go the way of the Huawei P50... no chips, no production... then US will prop up Skydio which is basically a flying nvidia graphics card...
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Higher labour costs will eventually erode a country´s efficiency advantage when it comes to manufacture, specially a country that doesnt have a high technology base, or just leverage its position to get other countries companies to transfer their tech. China has the second largest economy in the world, but how many chinese brands do people in the west know, outside of smartphones/tablets/PC ?

Global supply chains jump from country to country, always following the cheap labour. Eventually it will happen to china too.


Dont be so sure about that.
I don't think so labor cost in not the only criteria for investment, comprehensive cluster of supply chain, skilled ,hard working labor, efficient transportation, automated and efficient harbor, port, airport, speedy custom clearance, political and economical stability. Huge and increasingly wealthy domestic market, educated population, no red tape, China has all those combination.

All of them goes into consideration, where people invest and park their money. Pot and pan, screw and assembled job, sewing and ironing job might leave. But Chinese factory will still supply the metal, the electronic component , mother board etc. so they go higher value added stuff and that is what they want as the population is better educated nobody want that job

I don't see anyone can replace Chinese supply chain in foreseeable future.

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China largest FDI recipient in 2020 amidst global plunge -- UNCTAD report​

GENEVA, Jan. 24 (Xinhua) -- Global foreign direct investment (FDI) plunged by 42 percent in 2020, a new report by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) showed on Sunday, while China bucked the trend becoming the world's top recipient of investment flows.

In its latest Investment Trends Monitor, the Geneva-based UN trade and development body said that FDI fell sharply to an estimated 859 billion U.S. dollars last year, from 1.5 trillion U.S. dollars in 2019, and warned of further weakness this year, putting a sustainable recovery from COVID-19 pandemic at risk.

"FDI finished 2020 more than 30 percent below the trough after the global financial crisis in 2009 and back at a level last seen in the 1990s," the report wrote.

The data showed that the decline was concentrated in developed countries, where FDI flows fell by 69 percent to an estimated 229 billion U.S. dollars, the lowest level in 25 years.

Flows to Europe dried up completely, tumbling by two-thirds to minus 4 billion U.S. dollars, it noted. In Britain, FDI fell to zero, and declines were recorded in other major European recipients. A sharp decrease of 49 percent to 134 billion U.S. dollars was also recorded in the United States.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Some people think like it is still 20 years ago. Today the 4th Industrial Revolution is underway.

Quite frankly, the poor countries will have the rug pulled under them. There is still a 10-15 transitional period so after 2035 at latest, automation will take everything (manufacturing first, services later)
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
...
The DJI Mavic line uses Movidius AI chips for all its AI functionality...

Movidius was bought by Intel

All US has to do is a blanket chip embargo and the Mavic will go the way of the Huawei P50... no chips, no production... then US will prop up Skydio which is basically a flying nvidia graphics card...

With the amount of capital a company like DJI has they would be suicidal if they aren't working on their own chips or at least having 2nd and 3rd suppliers for their chips.
 

foofy

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hua Hong has a lot less capacity and older manufacturing processes. Hua Hong has 4 fabs of which only one uses 300mm wafers plus another 300mm fab at Hauli. Their best process is 28nm. SMIC has 7 fabs of which 4 use 300mm wafers. Their best mass manufactured process is 14nm with N+1 ramping up right now.

There is a big gap between 28nm and 14nm since you need FinFET 3D transistor and different processes so it is a lot more difficult than previous planar transistor processes.

Hua Hong, formerly Grace Semiconductor, had a shitton of state support but it never had the same amount of success because quite simply the founders had a lot less semiconductor fabrication and industry experience regardless of their political connections.
Shanghai ICRD is Huahong subsidiary.

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foofy

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NAURA Technology revenue reached 6 billions rmb in year 2020.

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集微网消息,4月11日,北方华创发布2020年度业绩快报称,公司2020年度实现营业总收入605,604.30万元,同比增长49.23%;营业利润66,916.50万元,同比增长59.10%;归属于上市公司股东的净利润53,693.04万元,同比增长73.75%。
 
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