Chinese semiconductor industry

Oldschool said:

A very generalized viewpointed panel. They don't know Chinese internal semiconductor industry.

What they mentioned is nothing more than in the normal news publications.

They mentioned not a specific Chinese equipment company and product.


Their knowledge is not very good and helpful.
They only mention SMIC. Almost everyone knows that.

Alll and all, they mostly talk about policies and general observation.

Click to expand...

@Oldschool hahaha, You know bro the beauty of the Chinese language, they can't decipher hahaha Your info together with @WTAN @foofy @localizer @Nutrient @Skywatcher @superdog @Hendrik_2000 @gelgoog @horse and @KYli had more credibility, that is why this thread is so FXXKINGLY interesting. I learned a lot, its like a journey, full of frustration , anxiety at the beginning, then hope and finally surprises, we are on the final stretch of a long march (journey) and thank you all for letting me be apart of it.

AndrewS said:

My gut tells me 95% self-sufficiency for 28nm semiconductors is a bit too high.
But I do expect to see 99%-100% soon.
And nodes at 28nm+ should cover 80% of total semiconductor demand.

Also, there's no such thing as fast construction of Chinese carrier strike groups.
Even if China started today with a crash naval buildup, it would still be at least 5 years before a sizeable aircraft carrier fleet could be operational.

Click to expand...

If you go back on this thread, I posted a video of an Chinese IC insider talked the level of indigenous equipment at 28nm. He brought up 8 major equipments necessary for fabrication and which Chinese companies offer them. And also the major materials. He is quoting at 95%. At the 14nm it's about 60% based on his comparison of 14nm and 28nm products

daifo said:

At this point, it is more like usable for education, office work, and light gaming. You can likely get a lot better Intel based computer for the same price. The single core performance is almost 10 years old macbook pro. The combine multicore performance puts it about 5 years old macbook pro and thats using 8 core rather than 4 cores. It will prob need at least a 50% boost in single core to be competitive but really 100% boost to be modern.

A Chinese guy reviews the lower end of the Zhaoxin. It sells for about 300usd, I would prob place it more in the 150-250$ range of netbook/chromebook computers you will find at walmart.

Click to expand...

Problem with these systems is that they can’t even compete with 10 year old used systems.

Like how Huawei’s 14nm kirin chip can’t compete with iphone 6

ansy1968 said:

@Oldschool hahaha, You know bro the beauty of the Chinese language, they can't decipher hahaha Your info together with @WTAN @foofy @localizer @Nutrient @Skywatcher @superdog @Hendrik_2000 @gelgoog @horse and @KYli had more credibility, that is why this thread is so FXXKINGLY interesting. I learned a lot, its like a journey, full of frustration , anxiety at the beginning, then hope and finally surprises, we are on the final stretch of a long march (journey) and thank you all for letting me be apart of it.

Click to expand...

The biggest surprise is when I uncovered China already has an EUV prototype in 2017 but no industrial players come out to support it. Can you imagine if Huawei come out and support their effort to make it industrial grade 5 years ago.

Once this indeginous 28nm tech goes into mass production, it will become the most complete supply chain on earth at this node by a single country.
A country challenge the whole western civilization.

Oldschool said:

The biggest surprise is when I uncovered China already has an EUV prototype in 2017 but no industrial players come out to support it. Can you imagine if Huawei come out and support their effort to make it industrial grade 5 years ago.

Click to expand...

@Oldschool hindsight is 20/20, I think that China adherence to international trade rule may had contribute to this problem, the CPP never realized that the American will destroy the institution they themselves help created. The sanction of Chinese private company is against the WTO rules, it will take time but it will haunt the US as China now had the justification to go all , what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

gadgetcool5 said:

Free Hour-Long Video: Examining China’s Semiconductor Self-Sufficiency: Present and Future Prospects​

Please join a panel of industry experts for a conversation on China’s indigenous semiconductor industry’s technological progress, current market position, growth prospects, and the challenges in closing the gap with global leaders. Panelists include: Randy Abrams, Managing Director, Head of Taiwan Research and Asia Semiconductors at Credit Suisse; Dr. Handel Jones, CEO at IBS, Inc.; Chris Thomas, a leading China and Tech Industry Scholar; and Jimmy Goodrich Vice President, Global Policy at SIA. The session will be moderated by Falan Yinug, Director of Industry Statistics and Economy Policy at SIA.

Click to expand...

bunch of whypipo, not credible

The West and even some members in here like to factor things around acceptance as important in the success of a domestic Chinese chip industry. By who? Them as-in the world if they buy them? If Trump bans Americans from buying, how does that affect whether it's good or not? Does it mean it's automatically bad because they're not buying it. The US wanting to ban China is it because Chinese chips are bad or just because it's political? Whether they buy it or not plays no factor in a successful domestic industry. Why were US military contractors caught buying Chinese chip alternatives when that's against the law hence it caused a scandal? It's because they were cheaper and good enough to do the same job. China is a continent size market. China doesn't need them buying it. Their rejecting of it doesn't make domestic production chips a failure.

The US plays its little mind games like how wife beaters do it. Wife beaters tell their wives that they can't do anything without them so they don't even try and keep them under in their control. They hide behind how it's all about love not hate. If they didn't love them, they wouldn't bother to abuse them. That's where they want China to see it. Just look at Facebook vs Australia. It wasn't because Facebook was robbing Australian news media of money, Facebook was helping them getting viewers to click onto their websites. One legitimate way to stop that was to cutoff links but Australia didn't like that even more. So what they were really after is they just wanted money. They want China to buy their chips. They just don't like what China is doing with them. They want China under their control so they can keep making money from China but not do with them what the US doesn't like. They don't want China to have their own domestic industry because then they will have no control and they will make no money. To tell their wife they can't do anything on their own is all about making her not even try to prevent her discovering that she could. That will assure it never happens. If China is incapable of this or that, what are they worried about? They don't want China to even try.

daifo said:

At this point, it is more like usable for education, office work, and light gaming.

Click to expand...

In other words, the Zhaoxin KX-6000 is good enough for 95% of people. Good enough to prevent an embargo of Intel chips from hurting China's PC market.

The reviews that you and others cite tend to be dismissive, but you miss a major point: that the Zhaoxin CPU chip works. And it is only the first generation of their chips.

Nutrient said:

In other words, the Zhaoxin KX-6000 is good enough for 95% of people. Good enough to prevent an embargo of Intel chips from hurting China's PC market.

The reviews that you and others cite tend to be dismissive, but you miss a major point: that the Zhaoxin CPU chip works. And it is only the first generation of their chips.

Click to expand...

It is not the first generation. Plus the Zhaoxin KX-6000 is a 16nm CPU which uses like twice the power of an old 28nm AMD CPU and has slightly worse performance than it. That AMD CPU core (Excavator) was considered obsolete when it came out with much worse performance than Intel cores at the time. They still have a long way to go.

Compare that with the Huawei SoCs which had leading edge performance. But then again Huawei was licensing a CPU core designed outside China. I think only the 5G modem and the AI blocks were their own design.