Chinese semiconductor industry

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antiterror13

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No it isn't. Does Apple M3 Pro have HyperThreading? It doesn't. It has a single thread per core.
Yet the Kirin 9000S has two threads per core in the big cores.

Only thing about the Apple M3 Pro, is that since it uses TSMC 3nm process, it has higher transistor density. So they can just throw more cores on the die. That does not require particular skill.

The fact that Kirin 9000S is that competitive even when hobbled with a much worse process is quite indicative of good skill by HiSilicon's chip design team.

Apple managed to replace X86 on the Macs because they were using custom chips made on the latest TSMC process, versus Intel X86 processors made in laggard processors, that they seldom upgraded even.

my answer is not about comparing Apple to Huawei .. really to question @henrik that claimed that Apple is not innovative company

I agree that Huawei is more innovative than Apple .. no question about it

no SOC currently that better than A16 ... soo Qualcomm, etc also use TSMC .. but still inferior to A16 in big margin
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Apple used to be really conservative. They started innovating again after Steve Jobs came back to Apple in the late 1990s. Even then they only started doing their own chip design for real in the late 2000s. Before that they typically assembled systems from off the shelf parts and slapped their own custom software on top.

Right now Apple is pretty decent at chip design. But still given the gargantuan amount of capital and funding they have, you would expect them to be doing better. Even Mediatek and Unisoc have their own 5G modem.
 

henrik

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well, a bit harsh to Apple. Apple's M3 pro and A16 is the most sophisticated CPU for the start

Probably it is true that modem is not Apple strong point and I know that Huawei has managed to design the 5G modem .. but remember that Huawei has to do that while Apple doesn't have to do that .. just nice to have .... "necessity is the mother of invention"

But Software, O/S and Chip design, etc .. Apple is up there in the top

Huawei also design its own harmony OS, and cpu chips.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
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It is surprisingly how difficult for Apple to make its own modem chip even after acquisition of intel lab for modem chip and multiple years of R&D and billions dollars of investment. Apple has again delayed the replacement of Qualcomm chips until 2025 or 2026.
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The difficulties are probably with bypassing the IPs of Qualcomm and others
 

tphuang

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a couple of more things on supply chain
10天前的消息,再补点细节:目前为止,不是KOL吹豪威,而是品方在实验室测试结果发现,OV50K/50H比想象中好用...事实上,豪威已经得到台积电较为先进的工艺,性能上非常顶

至于,你们担心会不会被卡韦尔的脖子,只能说多虑了...50H就是SMIC代工的,答案就是不会
Looks like OV50K is coming out and will use TSMC's most advanced CIS process.
However, 50H is fabb'd by SMIC. Makes sense given the recent comment by SMIC that their CIS 55nm process and bonding capacity is constrained. Their lack of ability of supplying enough CIS to domestic phone makers likely due to SMIC's capacity constraints.

荣耀100系列属于越看越好看那种,在经过培训之后,所有的店员,都对产品特别有信心
[吃瓜]


当然,今天耀耀的重头戏还是护眼技术沟通会里边,明确了一个信息点就是荣耀100系列会首发荣耀的绿洲护眼屏,而且拿到机器的媒体老师都说,护眼效果属实不错。

tips:维信诺、天马、京东方三家屏厂,一起合作
Honor 100 series will use screens from Visionox, Tianma and BOE. Looks like domestic OLED makers are capturing most of the market share
 

tokenanalyst

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Registered Member

Jiaxin Semiconductor Zhou Weifang: The U-shaped cycle is a good opportunity for semiconductor equipment companies to devote themselves to cultivation.​


In recent years, the demand for chips in emerging fields such as new energy vehicles has continued to grow, and the demand for wafer foundry capacity has further overlapped and fissured. The capacity expansion of domestic semiconductor manufacturing companies has provided a strong impetus for the growth of the domestic semiconductor equipment market.

"Although the semiconductor industry's prosperity has declined since last year and it has not yet completely emerged from the U-shaped bottom, this is a good opportunity for equipment companies to concentrate on product development and verification. " Zhou Weifang pointed out. This is because the research and development cycle of semiconductor equipment is quite long. After the α equipment is mass-produced, it takes at least 6 months to conduct on-site verification at the customer's factory. Only after passing the verification will the customer place an order. The cycle usually exceeds one year. "If the wafer factory is in the golden period of capacity expansion, most of the production capacity and manpower will have to serve the mass production line, and there will be no time to verify new machines. Therefore, the cycle of the entire semiconductor industry and the development cycle of equipment companies are inversely related. It is also an excellent opportunity for the growth of equipment companies, and Jiaxin Semiconductor will seize the current time window for the growth of equipment companies."

Regarding the company's development plan, she emphasized that first, focus on the main process equipment such as thin film deposition, etching, rapid heat treatment and exhaust gas treatment that Jiaxin Semiconductor currently covers, and continuously improve and strengthen it to create a complete one- stop The target coverage area of front-end equipment solutions that accounts for more than 50% of the value of the entire wafer fab equipment.
Secondly, we provide more process know-how services and customized needs to meet customer needs to help customers better use equipment.


Zhou Weifang likens semiconductor equipment to the tools used by chefs for cooking. Some chefs use these tools to cook home-cooked dishes, while some chefs can make Manchu and Han banquets. The core know-how of a wafer fab is how to use hundreds of front-end process equipment. , to produce chips or devices with good yield and performance. This is the key to testing the manufacturing capabilities and process level of the wafer factory. "Factory construction and production expansion have been rapid in the past two years, but there is a shortage of domestic process talent reserves that truly understand semiconductor manufacturing processes, and domestic equipment is not well accepted by customers. This is why it was so difficult to promote domestic equipment in the past. Because workers want to do their job well, You must first sharpen your tools. If the tools are not easy to use or used incorrectly, you will get half the result with twice the effort," she emphasized.

As overseas countries increase their impact on the domestic semiconductor industry, the localization of upstream links is forced to accelerate. However, the process of gradually shifting from a production line under an international supply chain system to partially domestically produced and then fully domestically produced may be painful and may take more than five years. Zhou Weifang emphasized that although it is painful, this is the final idea. More and more forward-looking Fabs with strategic vision and industrial ambitions are beginning to increase the proportion of domestic equipment used. First solve the problem of "can't buy it", and then gradually solve the problem of "is it easy to use".

"In the context of these demands, the thinking of semiconductor equipment companies has begun to shift from selling equipment to providing processes, know-how, and services. This is what customers really want." Zhou Weifang said
.
At present, Jiaxin Semiconductor has subsidiaries Jiaxin Jianeng, Jiaxin Hongyang and new product research and development departments. It has attracted many mature expert teams from around the world and has formed multiple semiconductor front-end core equipment product lines. The cumulative order amount since its establishment in 2021 has exceeded 470 million yuan, and it has obtained rapid thermal processing (RTP) equipment, silicon nitride, sidewalls, metal plasma etching machines, high-density plasma thin film deposition equipment (HDP-CVD), doped boron and phosphorus Silicon dioxide thin film chemical deposition equipment (SACVD), silicon dioxide plasma thin film deposition equipment (PECVD), titanium/titanium nitride deposition equipment (MOCVD), aluminum copper metal sputtering equipment (Metal Sputter (Al/Ti/TiN)) , double combustion + double water washing exhaust gas treatment equipment and other types of equipment orders. The new production capacity base of Jiaxin Semiconductor, which was officially opened a few days ago, will formulate specific production capacity plans based on the expansion plans of downstream customers. At the same time, Jiaxin Semiconductor is actively expanding its national layout. Jiashan, Zhejiang, serves as the main R&D and manufacturing base. In addition, it also has other facilities in Tianjin, Service centers have been set up in Qingdao, Shanghai Pudong, Putian and Shenzhen to meet 7×24-hour customer service.
"Take a mature wafer factory with a monthly production capacity of 50,000 wafers as an example. Its investment in semiconductor equipment is about 5 billion to 8 billion yuan. If Jiaxin's equipment can cover multiple main processes such as thin film and etching, it can account for Accounting for about 40% of the total equipment investment." Zhou Weifang emphasized, "In addition, third-generation semiconductors and advanced packaging are also new tracks targeted by domestic equipment companies, but these areas still require the industry chain to solve corresponding technical and cost challenges, equipment needs Only then can we usher in an explosion.”​
A single tree does not make a forest. Domestic semiconductor equipment needs fertile soil for the development of ecological prosperity.
"Semiconductor equipment does not make a forest by itself. It is an industry that pays great attention to ecology and business methods." Zhou Weifang pointed out that semiconductor equipment needs to grow together with customers from the bottom to create an overall cooperative ecosystem.
In the localization of semiconductor equipment, the simultaneous growth of components is particularly important. It is reported that for equipment manufacturers, due to the extremely complex use environment, parts need to maintain a high degree of consistency and will not easily change suppliers. The verification procedures for semiconductor equipment components are quite complicated, and the cooperation from downstream customers is not high. In addition, during the long-term product iteration process, foreign parts manufacturers have formed a large amount of know-how, while domestic manufacturers have difficulty in obtaining verification opportunities and large-scale applications due to lack of experience and key technologies.
Zhou Weifang mentioned that when recommending equipment to wafer fab customers, they first care about whether the equipment is domestically produced, and secondly, they care about whether the core components in the equipment are domestically produced, especially such as pressure gauges, flow meters, E- The current localization ratio of parts such as chuck. The current improvement of localization is not only the improvement of equipment, but also forces the simultaneous realization of domestic substitution in the most difficult-to-enter areas such as parts and materials, which requires the joint efforts of the entire industry chain.
"The problem with our domestic parts is not that the technical indicators or life span are not up to standard, but that they have not been verified, and these parts have not been running marathons on the machine for several years, and problems may not be found. For example, the critical gas flow components In terms of indicators such as airtightness and corrosion resistance, problems may not be discovered without running the actual machine for two years. " Zhou Weifang pointed out.

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tonyget

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Applied Materials under US criminal probe for shipments to China's SMIC​

(Reuters) - Semiconductor equipment maker Applied Materials is under U.S. criminal investigation for potentially evading export restrictions on China's top chipmaker SMIC, according to three people familiar with the matter.

The largest U.S. semiconductor equipment maker is being probed by the Justice Department for sending equipment to SMIC via South Korea without export licenses, the sources said. Hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment is involved, one of the people said. Reuters is reporting details of the probe for the first time.

Shares in Applied Materials fell 7.3% after the news and the company reported quarterly results.

The U.S. has restricted shipments of advanced chips and chipmaking equipment to China for national security, and the Justice and Commerce departments launched a task force earlier this year to investigate and prosecute criminal violations of export controls. The rules are aimed at stemming the flow of U.S. technology that could be used to bolster China's military and intelligence capabilities.

Santa Clara, California-based Applied Materials said Thursday it first disclosed in October 2022 that it had received a subpoena from the U.S. Attorney's Office in Massachusetts for information on certain China customer shipments. "The company is cooperating with the government and remains committed to compliance and global laws, including export controls and trade regulations," it said in a statement.

The U.S. Attorney's office in Boston said: "We do not confirm or deny investigations."

Prosecutors in the office's National Security Unit are handling the ongoing probe, two sources said.

Reuters could not determine whether Applied Materials violated the law, and it isn't clear whether the investigation will result in charges.

The company produced semiconductor equipment in Massachusetts, then repeatedly shipped the equipment from its plant in Gloucester to a subsidiary in South Korea, the people said. From there, the equipment went to China's Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), the people, familiar with the probe, said.

The shipments began after the U.S. Commerce Department added SMIC to its "Entity List" in December 2020, which restricted exports of goods and technology to the company, two of the sources said, and took place in 2021 and 2022.

SMIC was placed on the list over its apparent ties to the Chinese military. SMIC did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the shipments from Applied Materials. In 2020, SMIC denied ties with the Chinese military, saying that it manufactures chips and provides services "solely for civilian and commercial end-users and end-uses."

A spokesperson for the Commerce Department, which oversees export controls, declined comment. A spokesperson for China's embassy in Washington was not aware of the Applied Materials probe. But Liu Pengyu, the spokesperson, said that, as a general principle, "imposed restrictions" are "at odds with market economy principles and fair competition."

SUBJECT TO UNCERTAINTIES

In adding SMIC to its trade blacklist in 2020, the Commerce Department said that licenses for equipment uniquely capable of producing chips at advanced technology nodes are likely to be denied to "prevent such key enabling technology from supporting China’s military modernization efforts,” according to a 2020 posting in the Federal Register.

Licenses for other items are subject to a case-by-case review, it added.

In March 2021, Reuters reported that the U.S. government had been slow to approve licenses for American companies like Lam Research Corp and Applied Materials to sell to SMIC.

"This matter is subject to uncertainties, and we cannot predict the outcome, nor reasonably estimate a range of loss or penalties, if any, relating to this matter," the company said in an August 2023 filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, in reference to its 2022 receipt of the subpoena relating to certain China customer shipments.

(Reporting by Karen Freifeld; Editing by Anna Driver)
 

tokenanalyst

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Hexin Technology: Prototype verification chip TC2 successfully lights up domestic high-end server processors and adds new force.​


The high-end domestic server processors competing among the best have once again set a new milestone. Recently, with the day-and-night efforts of the R&D team, the second-generation high-end server processor chip HX-C2000 prototype verification chip TC2 independently developed by Hexin Technology was successfully lit, marking Hexin Technology's progress in the development of a new generation of high-performance processors. Climbing another mountain also means that Hexin Technology will shape a new competitive landscape in the field of high-performance CPUs.

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yust

Just Hatched
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It is surprisingly how difficult for Apple to make its own modem chip even after acquisition of intel lab for modem chip and multiple years of R&D and billions dollars of investment. Apple has again delayed the replacement of Qualcomm chips until 2025 or 2026.
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It isn't that hard, unisoc developed a 5G modem back in 2020. Samsung's exynos also feature an integrated 5G modem. If those 'small' chip designers could develop a 5G modem there is no doubt apple can with all their resources.

So why are they still using QC's modem?
I'm pretty certain that they managed to develop something that isn't as good as what they are using currently. And Apple cannot afford a regression in signal quality or power consumption bc they are charging for a premium product.
 
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