Did the US forbid Japan making EUV machines？I don't think so
Chinese semiconductor industry
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Did the US forbid Japan making EUV machines？I don't think so
from the guy who broke news on kirin chips
chip component is interesting for me.
Snapdragon W5+ uses 4nm SoC
here is 恒玄 (Bestechnic)'s BES 2700 uses 12nm process
Huawei uses for its ear bud
so I had always assumed that for wearables like watches & earbuds & glasses, HW could just use 12nm process. But based on Snapdragon W5 using 4nm process, the difference in power consumption may become an issue.
If Kirin A2 (or whatever the next gen wearable SoC for Huawei is called) uses 7nm process, this would squeeze even further into Huawei's requirement for SMIC 7nm production.
This is interesting. so oppo coming out with new smart watch with eSIM, circular OLED screen?, Snapdragon W5 & BES2700 chip. Can do ECG, oxygen level & various health related functionality. Looks very good
chip component is interesting for me.
Snapdragon W5+ uses 4nm SoC
here is 恒玄 (Bestechnic)'s BES 2700 uses 12nm process
Huawei uses for its ear bud
so I had always assumed that for wearables like watches & earbuds & glasses, HW could just use 12nm process. But based on Snapdragon W5 using 4nm process, the difference in power consumption may become an issue.
If Kirin A2 (or whatever the next gen wearable SoC for Huawei is called) uses 7nm process, this would squeeze even further into Huawei's requirement for SMIC 7nm production.
While we pay alot of focus to the DUVis (ASML or SMEE) given their prominence, but the rest of the downstream equipment/materials contribute equally even if they are lower profile. Your process and output is only as good as the weakest equipment/step in the processing, so even if they have the best scanners it doesn't guarantee you can get results similar to SMIC if the rest of the steps don't have the same tolerances, fidelity or throughput as the scanner you will just get alot of variance in output or mediocre yields or both, which is what is happening with Samsung despite having access to LAM/AMAT/KLA equipment.. We don't know the effectiveness when you don't follow the gold standard LAM/AMAT/KLA blueprint for process equipment, and Huawei will have a more difficult time sourcing then SMIC due to being newer to the game and also being under tighter screws so their hurdles are even higher to overcome. For arguments sake if there exists a de-americanized version or domestic only + ASML version that can provide comparable results, given what we know about domestic SME being backlogged I would question how Huawei can ramp up to HVM commercial production across its multiple fabs while SMIC is still stuck close to its current production (allegedly) given the lead SMIC has on domestic equipment integration and broader experience overall. If those additional resources do exist, I would expect SMIC to be breaking through its current capacity limits.
N+1 and N+2 are specific processes names by SMIC. If Huawei had their own in-house process it wouldn’t be called N+1 or N+2. There are not universal designations. I think the evidence that Huawei fabbed their own chips is extremely weak. We would have seen a whole lot more evidence that this was happening in facilities construction and equipment purchases. You can’t hide the activity of building a fab if you’re producing the quantity of chips Huawei would need to supply their phones. There likely wouldn’t even be expansion capacity on demand to increase orders if they were doing this all by themselves.
Not all equipment face the same constraints. Some you can workaround with lower quality equipment and some you cannot. Photolithography is one of the more (probably most) unforgiving steps of the fabrication process.
Technically N+1 and N+2 are standard nomenclature referring to the next node and the one after that on the technical roadmap. Node N would be referring to the fab’s most advanced HVM node.
So, what SMIC referred to as N+2 (7nm) back in 2020 in Liang Meng Song’s resignation letter should be the ‘N’ node of today.
Btw, SMIC no longer produce anything at N+1, at least at the moment. All their capacity at Fab8 are split between 14nm and 7nm (N+2) products.
Huawei has supposedly mastered 28nm working with JHICC. So, we can technically accept it if Huawei calls 28nm their node N. BUT, there is not much 28nm volume so it’s technically would be questionable to call it an HVM node.
So, assuming Huawei calls N the 28nm node, then the N+1 process for Huawei would be a 14/16nm if finfet or 20nm planar. Correct?
yes, i believe they are tackling 14nm FinFET right after 28nm at JHICC at the moment. They are skipping 20nm node just like SMIC did. I can confirm Huawei is working on qualifying domestic non-litho equipments at 14nm node.
But I never hear Huawei or JHICC use the N/N+1/N+2 nomenclature. They simply use the node name. It could be what observers are using to describe what Huawei is working on.
With that said, Huawei do not have their own fab nor meaningful capacity at the moment at these advanced logic nodes. Any claim that they built their own Kirin9000s at their own fab is just ridiculous and insult to SMIC.
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Did Mr Xu forget to mention ARM and Loongson ecosystem？
Huawei Rotating Chairman Xu Zhijun: Computing chips must be built on the basis of actually available chip manufacturing processes
Jiweiwang News, on September 15, Xu Zhijun, Vice Chairman and Rotating Chairman of Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd., said at the 2023 World Computing Conference that from the perspective of the development path of the computing industry, only large-scale use can drive the progress and development of the computing industry. Development; computing chips must be built on the basis of actually available chip manufacturing processes; unswervingly build an independent computing industry ecosystem to achieve sustainable development; computing power infrastructure must be built on the basis of sustainably available computing chips and ecology.
Xu Zhijun pointed out that currently, China's general computing industry is advancing in three ecological forms. One is the X86 ecosystem, the other is the Pentium ecosystem, and the other is the RISC-V open source ecosystem. The three ecosystems will develop in parallel for a long time in the future. In the end, we will see who can support us in the future.
At the opening ceremony, the "Pengteng" Ecological Hunan Innovation Center was established, and China Electronics and Huawei jointly launched the "Pengteng" ecological series plans.
Previously, China Electronics Information Industry Group Co., Ltd. and Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. jointly announced their decision to merge the Kunpeng Ecosystem and the PKS Ecosystem to jointly create the "Pengteng" ecosystem that supports both Kunpeng and Feiteng processors, and work together with industry partners to develop together and create a universal A new landscape of computing power. (Proofreading/Jiang Yutong)
华为轮值董事长徐直军：计算芯片要构筑在实际可获得的芯片制造工艺基础上
集微网消息，9月15日，华为技术有限公司副董事长、轮值董事长徐直军在2023世界计算大会上表示，从计算产业的发展路径来看，只有大规模使用才能拉动计算产业的进步和发展；计算芯片要构筑在实际可获得的芯片制造工艺基础上；坚定不移打造自主的计算产业生态，实现可持续发展；算力基础设施要构筑在可持续获得的计算芯片和生态基础上。
徐直军指出，目前，中国的通用计算产业正在以三个生态形式向前推进。一个是X86生态，一个是鹏腾生态，还有一个是RISC-V开源生态，三个生态在未来很长时间将会并行发展，最终看谁能够支撑我们面向未来。
开幕式上，“鹏腾”生态湖南创新中心成立，中国电子与华为联合启动“鹏腾”生态系列计划。
此前，中国电子信息产业集团有限公司、华为技术有限公司共同宣布，决定合并鲲鹏生态和PKS生态，共同打造同时支持鲲鹏和飞腾处理器的“鹏腾”生态，携手产业界伙伴共同发展，开创通用算力新格局。（校对/姜羽桐）
Huawei Rotating Chairman Xu Zhijun: Computing chips must be built on the basis of actually available chip manufacturing processes
Jiweiwang News, on September 15, Xu Zhijun, Vice Chairman and Rotating Chairman of Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd., said at the 2023 World Computing Conference that from the perspective of the development path of the computing industry, only large-scale use can drive the progress and development of the computing industry. Development; computing chips must be built on the basis of actually available chip manufacturing processes; unswervingly build an independent computing industry ecosystem to achieve sustainable development; computing power infrastructure must be built on the basis of sustainably available computing chips and ecology.
Xu Zhijun pointed out that currently, China's general computing industry is advancing in three ecological forms. One is the X86 ecosystem, the other is the Pentium ecosystem, and the other is the RISC-V open source ecosystem. The three ecosystems will develop in parallel for a long time in the future. In the end, we will see who can support us in the future.
At the opening ceremony, the "Pengteng" Ecological Hunan Innovation Center was established, and China Electronics and Huawei jointly launched the "Pengteng" ecological series plans.
Previously, China Electronics Information Industry Group Co., Ltd. and Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. jointly announced their decision to merge the Kunpeng Ecosystem and the PKS Ecosystem to jointly create the "Pengteng" ecosystem that supports both Kunpeng and Feiteng processors, and work together with industry partners to develop together and create a universal A new landscape of computing power. (Proofreading/Jiang Yutong)
华为轮值董事长徐直军：计算芯片要构筑在实际可获得的芯片制造工艺基础上
集微网消息，9月15日，华为技术有限公司副董事长、轮值董事长徐直军在2023世界计算大会上表示，从计算产业的发展路径来看，只有大规模使用才能拉动计算产业的进步和发展；计算芯片要构筑在实际可获得的芯片制造工艺基础上；坚定不移打造自主的计算产业生态，实现可持续发展；算力基础设施要构筑在可持续获得的计算芯片和生态基础上。
徐直军指出，目前，中国的通用计算产业正在以三个生态形式向前推进。一个是X86生态，一个是鹏腾生态，还有一个是RISC-V开源生态，三个生态在未来很长时间将会并行发展，最终看谁能够支撑我们面向未来。
开幕式上，“鹏腾”生态湖南创新中心成立，中国电子与华为联合启动“鹏腾”生态系列计划。
此前，中国电子信息产业集团有限公司、华为技术有限公司共同宣布，决定合并鲲鹏生态和PKS生态，共同打造同时支持鲲鹏和飞腾处理器的“鹏腾”生态，携手产业界伙伴共同发展，开创通用算力新格局。（校对/姜羽桐）
The Pengteng ecosystem that he mentioned is the ARM one. That's a partnership between Huawei and Phytium. The last paragraph in your article talks about it. I think in the sentence you highlighted the translator has translated Pengteng as Pentium.
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