Chinese semiconductor industry

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siegecrossbow

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who said this piece?

If each wafer contains 450 good SoC for TSMC wafer of Snapdragon, then I may have to revise my total of total chips per wafer down (i did calculation based on 550 chips/wafer when it's possible this may only be 500 to 525, not sure TSMC yield here), which would further lead to lower # of good chip per SMIC wafer




Which again is the reason I am skeptical of the sub 50% yield number we have seen. Again, I am sure it was at that level for a long time, buy the sudden change in huawei, especially with the brazen dig at raimondo tells me that they have seen an improvement recently in kirin production. Otherwise, how do you tell supply chain to prepare for 15 to 20m mate 60 phones and then tell stores to not worry about supply? And that's just tip of the iceberg. So many new phones out that will need Kirin chips.

And now they get a full ban, they must have done some calculations and think that smic + whatever they stocked up is sufficient to last until whenever smic can ramp up production. My guess sometimes over next year.

My calculations was that even 20k wpm of 7nm isn't enough for Huawei itself let alone all the other OEMs in china.

And that number needs to continue to increase, because they will have to keep going advanced packaging and larger combined die size to deal with the gap in process node.

So one would think that either Huawei just went crazy here or they are seeing a way through. Which means more finfet capacity+ higher yield expected going forward.

If it is not sustainable, Huawei would not have done it. They usually keep a very low profile to avoid being targeted. Just compare how easily they got ZTE versus how many hoops they had to jump through to ban Huawei.

All evidence points to the fact that Huawei and SMIC have a definitive workaround of the ban and have factored in the worst case scenario of US lawmakers going full retard and using the nuclear option. Otherwise they could easily have waited a year or two because contrary to popular belief, smartphone sale is not the core of Huawei’s business.
 

Zichan

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As I understand it TSMC 7nm is comparable to Intel’s most advanced process. Intel is also using DUV multi patterning, not using EUV due to cost. In other words, in principle, it could be competitive.
Intel is using DUV for Intel7 which is comparable to TSMC 7nm. Intel's current Intel4 process uses EUV for critical layers and is comparable to TSMC's 4nm process, hence the names.
 

KYli

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Another national security threat sanctions by the US for Chinese cellular modules.
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Techinsights seems to be more impartial than other research firms. So it is more than 50% yield as expected.
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SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Huawei Technologies' new high-end smartphone contains more China-made chip components than previous models in a sign of Beijing's advances in the semiconductor sphere, according to research firm TechInsights, which is taking the device apart.

"It looks like more than half, maybe two-thirds of the silicon is domestically grown capability, where in the phones we were seeing 2-3 years ago, a third was domestic. That's another really big advance they've made," Dan Hutcheson, an analyst with TechInsights, told Reuters.

The Ottawa-based firm has since last weekend been examining parts of Huawei's Mate 60 Pro and said earlier that the phone is powered by a new advanced chip that China's top contract chipmaker SMIC manufactured using an advanced 7 nanometre (nm) technology, a breakthrough for the duo hit by U.S. sanctions.

"The significance is that it shows that China has been able to stay 2-2.5 nodes behind the world's best (chip) companies. People thought they would be stopped at 14 nanometer," Hutcheson said.

Analysts have been speculating over how costly it has been for Huawei to achieve the breakthrough, revealed last week during U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo's visit to China, and what the chip's production yield could be, which refers to the number of usable chips from each wafer and affects production costs.

Some research firms forecast SMIC's 7 nm process has a yield rate below 50%, versus the industry norm of 90% or more, and the low yield would limit shipments to around 2-4 million chips, not enough for Huawei to regain its former smartphone market dominance.

Hutcheson, however, said "above 50%" was reasonable in his view, saying the chip was made in a far cleaner fashion and was much more competent than an earlier iteration of a 7 nm chip also made by SMIC that TechInsights examined last year.

"You can tell by how well it's made," he said. "China's been buying tools like crazy so they probably have the capability to do this and yield ok with it."


Huawei and SMIC did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Huawei's smartphone business was decimated after the U.S. started restricting tech exports to the company in 2019 and analysts say the phone could mark a first step in the company's efforts to come back to rival Apple.

Some early users of the phone have also posted videos of the phone containing NAND flash memory chips made by South Korea's SK Hynix Inc, which voluntarily suspended chip sales to Huawei after the Chinese firm was hit by Washington's sanctions.

"SK Hynix no longer does business with Huawei since the introduction of the U.S. restrictions against the company and with regard to the issue we started an investigation to find out more details," the company said in a statement.

"SK Hynix is strictly abiding by the U.S. government's export restrictions."
 

tokenanalyst

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Gree Group signs contracts with two major chip projects​


At the signing ceremony, Gree Group, Zhuhai High-tech Financial Investment Co., Ltd. and Nanjing Digital Optical Core Technology Co., Ltd. signed a contract. The project plans to invest in the construction of the underlying silicon-based drive project for digital light-field chips in Zhuhai High-tech Zone, and promote the comprehensive domestic production of silicon-based display chips. change.

Nanjing Digital Optical Core Technology Co., Ltd. is a start-up industrial digital optical field chip design and manufacturing enterprise. Gree Gold Investment intends to invest 20 million yuan through the self-managed Gejin No. 8 Fund. The investment agreement has been signed and plans to contribute in the near future to help enterprises accelerate their production in Zhuhai.

At the same time, Gree Group signed a contract with Chengdu Dianke Xingtuo Technology Co., Ltd. to build an enterprise-level high-speed analog chip and digital-analog hybrid chip project for Dianke Xingtuo, and to carry out research and development and industrialization of enterprise-level high-speed analog chips and digital-analog hybrid chips.

The business direction of Chengdu Dianke Xingtuo Technology Co., Ltd. mainly includes enterprise-level high-speed analog chips and digital-analog hybrid chips. At present, a wholly-owned subsidiary, Zhuhai Dianke Xingtuo Technology Co., Ltd., has been established in Zhuhai High-tech Zone to go all out to carry out the project . It is reported that in February 2023, Gree Financial Investment invested 30 million yuan to invest in Dianke Xingtuo through the first phase fund of Wenxin, which participated in the management, to promote Dianke Xingtuo to accelerate the financing progress, and "promote investment" to settle in Gechuang Shugu .​

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tphuang

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another update here on CETC's effort to make more in road with SiC, especially with 55th institute.

They have a phase 2 that will build a new 8-inch fab for 200k wpy of SiC starting construction in 2024.

Looks like first phase started entered production and it produces 6-inch SiC wafers
在业内,进军8英寸衬底被视为降低成本的关键之举。相对于6英寸,8英寸的面积增加78%左右,由于边缘损耗减少,同等条件下从8英寸衬底切出的芯片数会增加将近90%。
again, 78% increase in surface area means 90% more chips in 8-inch vs 6-inch

记者了解到,碳化硅MOSFET芯片尺寸微不足道,仅3×3毫米见方,但它却好比新能源车车载充电机的“心脏”,能大大提高新能源车充电效率。陈辰透露:“截至目前,碳化硅MOSFET芯片已经在国内头部车企的车载电源系统中使用1300万只,保障了近200万辆汽车需求,出货量全国领先。此外,功率模块拟应用于红旗汽车的首款电驱,预计2024年正式装车。”
SiC MOSFET for onboard power system has been included in almost 2 million cars (13m SiC chips supplied).
More importantly, it will start produce Sic Modules for Hongqi cars starting next year

I can find this article which looks more official, but it's unclear to me what the phase 1 production level looks like
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Overall, I think it's very optimistic for firms like Infineon and Wolfspeed to say they will have 30% market share when Chinese SiC players have the home field advantage
 
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tonyget

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Techinsights believe that SMIC 7nm yield is above 50%

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Some research firms forecast SMIC's 7 nm process has a yield rate below 50%, versus the industry norm of 90% or more, and the low yield would limit shipments to around 2-4 million chips, not enough for Huawei to regain its former smartphone market dominance.

Hutcheson, however, said "above 50%" was reasonable in his view, saying the chip was made in a far cleaner fashion and was much more competent than an earlier iteration of a 7 nm chip also made by SMIC that TechInsights examined last year.
 

tamsen_ikard

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Is there any other fab companies other than SMIC that has a viable technology, factory capacity? If Chinese industry becomes dominated by SMIC that creates its own vulnerability.

What about Chinese GPU space? I read a lot of hype about Biren technology last year. But ever since the october ban, there is no news. Have they released any GPU to the market yet?
 

BoraTas

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CPUs
Apple has proven that ARM can be done well.

China is banned from the latest ARM updates. Probably that'd start having major impact in say 5 years.

In that case I believe China - including Huawei - would transition to RISC-V CPUs. Right now there's only a prototype of a RISC-V laptop CPU. Maybe it takes 5 years to adequately develop the ecosystem.

No. It wouldn't. There is nothing preventing Huawei from upgrading old ARM cores itself to higher performance levels. Incompatibilities can be handled at OS level. And if Harmony OS was really designed for being (relatively) platform agnostic, then this is even less of a problem.
 
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