Chinese semiconductor industry

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dingyibvs

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tonyget said:
CCTV invited Techinsights vice chair Dan Hutcheson to comment on Kirin 9000s processor

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That's a very interesting point raised by Dr. Lu at the end. He points out that Huawei's satellite chip communicates with a satellite 36,000km high (TianTong-1), which would be the geosynchronous orbit, and that it's able to make calls instead of just sending SMS. You only need 3 satellites in GEO to cover the whole planet. He sounded most impressed by this, described it as "eye-opening", particularly since it's in his area of interest. He postulates that Huawei must've made some breakthroughs in power consumption and antenna technology as before it required huge receivers to communicate with a GEO satellite.

I tend to agree with his assessment. While the Kirin9000s is a great achievement and a breakthrough for Chinese semi industry, it's something that's been done before elsewhere. This satellite communication technology is something groundbreaking and represents an incredible leap in technology which has never been done before anywhere in the world.
 
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siegecrossbow

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tonyget said:
CCTV invited Techinsights vice chair Dan Hutcheson to comment on Kirin 9000s processor

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If CCTV is doing this, it can only mean one thing — the Chinese government doesn’t care if the US does more “digging” on Huawei as some of the MSM has suggested and implement harsher sanction measures. They want the word out and are unsatisfied with the muted response from Biden Admin and their media accomplices.
 
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tokenanalyst

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Announcement of Jiangsu's first (set) major equipment to be identified list, including direct writing lithography machine, etc.​

On September 4, the Department of Industry and Information Technology of Jiangsu Province announced the list of the first (set) of major equipment to be certified in Jiangsu Province in 2023. The publicity period is from September 4 to September 10, 2023.
Judging from the list, these equipment involve integrated circuits, "two machines", basic technology, core components and other fields , including Ultar DTL-ms300 dynamic thin-layer wafer surface contamination extraction and measurement equipment from Wuxi Huaying Microelectronics Technology Co., Ltd. , DEM4000 direct writing lithography machine of Wuxi Yingsu Semiconductor Technology Co., Ltd., atomic layer deposition equipment (iTomic Hik) for advanced integrated circuit manufacturing of Jiangsu Microconductor Nano Technology Co., Ltd., IGBT of Ennaki Intelligent Technology Wuxi Co., Ltd. Power module system-level multi-chip intelligent placement equipment (M18MAX), etc.

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tokenanalyst

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Tuojing Technology: Full orders in hand, wafer-to-wafer bonding products have achieved mass production​

Tuojing Technology said in an institutional survey that the company is currently full of orders; the wafer-to-wafer bonding product (Dione300) has achieved mass production, and chip-to-wafer bonding products will be developed in the future research and development.
Tuojing Technology pointed out that according to SEMI forecasts, in 2023, due to the impact of the macroeconomic situation and the transformation of downstream demand, global semiconductor manufacturing equipment sales will decrease, but after adjustments in 2023, it is expected to resume growth in 2024. Although the semiconductor industry has experienced short-term fluctuations in prosperity, downstream fabs continue to expand production, providing market opportunities for the development of domestic semiconductor equipment.
Some investors asked about the reason for the slight decline in contract liabilities in the second quarter of this year compared to the first quarter. Tuojing Technology stated that the slight decline in contract liabilities does not directly reflect the company's performance. As of June 30, 2023, the contract Liabilities increased by 7.84% compared with the end of the previous year. In the second quarter of 2023, Tuojing Technology's operating income and products shipped in inventory both increased month-on-month. Tuojing Technology is still receiving orders from different customers, and there are currently full orders in hand. The quarter-on-quarter decrease in contract liabilities in the second quarter of 2023 was mainly due to the strategic development needs of Tuojing Technology, which adjusted its organizational structure at the beginning of 2023. Some of the orders signed by Tuojing Technology and customers were transferred to wholly-owned subsidiaries. The approval and signing progress of the tripartite agreement on the transfer of rights and obligations under the order that the subsidiary needs to sign with the customer will be affected by a short-term delay in stages.
In addition, in terms of production capacity, Tuojing Technology said that the current annual production capacity of Tuojing Technology's Shenyang headquarters is about 300-350 sets, and the first phase of Shanghai Lingang (that is, the third "ALD equipment R&D and industrialization project" of Tuojing Technology's fundraising project) The R&D and industrialization base construction plant renovation has been completed and put into use, and the R&D and production-related work has begun. The chemical base is under construction. After it is completed and put into use, the total production capacity of Tuojing Technology will be doubled every year.

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tphuang

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siegecrossbow said:
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Supply chain analysts predict that TSMC's advanced wafer production will go down by 100,000 next year as a result of Huawei's latest breakthrough.

Who said that AR is the worst thing that can happen to Taiwan?
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I'm not sure that I agree with that completely, but here are something to think about given the recent rumors of 60m HW sales all using domestic chips for 2024. Btw, I don't necessarily agree with everything he calculates here

假设6000w芯片，排除华为这两年存量3000w销量，剩下从苹果1500w（2019销量3440w，2021年5787w），其他安卓1500w获得（毛估其中高通1000w芯片，联发科500w）。那损失名单：①苹果减少1500w销量，大约是1100亿营收，还不含AppStore抽佣损失，②高通损失4000w芯片，大约600亿营收左右，③联发科500w芯片，50亿营收，④台积电6000w芯片，300亿营收。而这些美台团伙丢失的营收都会流入国内各个企业，这些钱都留在国内产业链了，实实在在的钱，最后再到打工的普通人，这才是关乎那些叫嚣月薪3000的人的真正大事。

再算算具体意义，苹果1100亿+高通联发科的650亿，这1750亿产值（而只有200亿是中企参与的附加值），如果按照30%人力成本--600亿，相当于每年提供月均8000工资覆盖60w人的岗位。进而带来更大的第三产业消费繁荣。
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My rough calculation
15m iPhones -> using $800 per phone -> $12B + appStore losses + other lost apple sales -> $15B
QCOM lose 30m SoC/yr from HW + another 10m/yr from android phone makers + 10m/yr for pads -> 50m SoC at $140/Soc -> $7B
Mediatek lose 5m SoC/yr -> $5B
if you add in RF/screen and other components that now use domestic supply chain. I think you are looking at an additional $30B for Chinese economy that can be used for R&D and such
 
siegecrossbow

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Some public domain info on the Chinese EUV based on a research article:

At this stage, the tin droplet generator experimental device developed by the team of the institute can spray tin droplets with a diameter of ~40 μm and a spacing of ~230 μm at a frequency of 100 kHz, and the working time is close to 5 hours. The position instability of the tin droplet in the vertical and horizontal directions is about 2 μm and 1 μm in a short period of 10 s, respectively.

However, compared with current commercial products, the above indicators still have a big gap. For example, the droplet target used in ASML products in 2015 can achieve a droplet diameter of about 27 μm, a frequency of 50 kHz, and a droplet spacing greater than 1 mm. 3 mm, the position instability of the droplet is ~1 μm within 30 s, and the instability of the droplet diameter within 20 min is 0.5 μm when the continuous operation lasts for more than one month.
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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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siegecrossbow said:
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Some public domain info on the Chinese EUV based on a research article:
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This is not an apples to apples comparison. The ASML droplet generator operates at 50 kHz while the SIOMP generator operates at 100 kHz. By necessity the droplet spacing will be shorter in the higher frequency machine. This seems to be early work on a next generation droplet system, probably not what's in CIOMP's prototype which I expect to be a 50 kHz system.
 
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ansy1968

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gullible said:
hi guys,
With smic process,
is N+1= 7nm?
N+2=5nm?

Is that equivalent to tsmc N7 & N5?
or samsung 5LPP process?

if N+1 = 7nm, is N=5nm?
sorry i am new to the process.

could you kindly point me to a link?
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Hi bro hope this help from glablo ( Pakistan Defense Forum)

This is the truth that people in the West don't want to see.
Antutu CPU score 182480 October 2020 kirin9000 TSMC 5nm
Antutu CPU Score 281599 Apr 2022 Snapdragon 8+Gen 1 TSMC 4nm
Antutu CPU score 279677 August 2023 kirin9000S SMIC N+2

The kirin9000S announced this time has 53% higher performance than the previous model manufactured using TSMC's 5nm process,
and is on par with the Snapdragon 8+Gen 1, which was released just last year.
The speed of China's modernization is frightening and it is only a matter of time before the TSMC kingdom falls.

Plus from our very own @Alb

I just would like to re-share a file that was already shared in this forum over 1 year ago. As you can see the 9000s is mentioned in the document. I don't read Chinese but from what I see the 9000s is fabbed using the N+1 process starting from 2022 Q1. This document seems to suggest that there will be follow up chips, 9100 on 7nm (I assume this is the N+2) and 9100s on a more advanced node. Let's wait and see if this file is accurate.

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sndef888

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Phead128 said:
The US sanctions goal has always been 0% yield on all nodes below 14nm. So any yield >0% for nodes <14nm is an objective failure, not even considering military applications doesn't need to be advanced or even commercial profitable. Total failure of sanctions!

Plus, China make the leap from 14nm to 7nm in under 2 years whereas the most optimistic is China getting 7nm by 2030, which 10 years later. Epic failure.

My sense is US is running out of cards that don't backfire in someway or form to hurt itself too. They already spent most of the hard hitting bullets.
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To be fair, we always knew they were capable of 7nm in small quantities ever since the mining card revealed like a year or two ago.

So I kind of expected Huawei to release some kind of 7nm phone. But I thought it would be some kind of midrange overpriced phone sold in small quantities to hardcore huawei fans. Never did I expect it to be an actually competitive flagship with great performance sold at decent prices, using their own cores and gpu, and mass produced by the tens of millions
 
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