Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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CR Micron released half year report

down 2.25% in revenue YoY. Not terrible when considering some of the competition, but profit is way down due to increased costs and expansions.

华润微的研发投入达到5.47亿元,同比增长42.29%,占营业总收入的10.87%;研发人员数量达1509人,占公司总人数的15.25%。
so yeah, R&D is up 42.29%, 10.87% of revenue. That's really good

华润微开发了基于8吋先进工艺平台650V的第五代微沟槽IGBT
developed 5th gen 650V IGBT on 8-inch wafers

IGBT revenue up 127% to reach 400m RMB YoY. That's still under 10% of their revenue

碳化硅和氮化镓功率器件销售收入同比增长约3.6倍,同时,碳化硅MOS销售额在碳化硅功率器件销售中的比例提升至50%以上,多颗氮化镓二代产品通过工业级考核,产品进入批量供应阶段;MOSFET方面,高压超结和中低压先进沟槽栅MOS产品销售规模快速增长,其中高压超结MOS在新能源汽车、光伏、储能、UPS、通信设备领域得到客户广泛认可,上半年营收同比增长100%。
in terms of 3rd gen power semiconductors, it's way up for SiC MOS. 2nd gen GaN product passed industrial test and is entering mass supply. NEV, PVs, ESS, UPS & communication equipment all getting validated by customers. up 100% in revenue here YoY for MOS

Again, new energy/power related revenues way up and consumer electronics related revenues way down for semiconductor firms
 

tphuang

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the fortunes of domestic RF suppliers like Maxscend is improving after a year of slowness. product needed for not just 5G itself, but also GPS, wifi, bluetooth, NFC and such. improved hw fortune = improved fortune for all the domestic suppliers

Also their product is improving. already uses self produced SAW filter in DiFEM/L-DiFEM product that they sell to customers (maybe that's to HW)
filters that can used for different band are in mass production.
L-FEMiD has been developed & they are working on imcreasing L-PAMiF coverage for end user. Will provide L-PAMID module by end of the year
I don't think HW will need the latter, but they do source switches, PAs/LNAs, SWA filter, possibly DiFEM modules from Maxscend

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Again, 160m RF filters shipped so far in various modules and that number should climb as its production climbs and HW demand goes up. But yeah, these guys all matter

The achievement of moving into 5G is huge for China, because most Chinese suppliers thus far have been concentrated on lower end items in RF modules like switches and LNAs
As mentioned in this Q&A with Maxscend
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2022年度,卓胜微的射频低噪声放大器、射频开关等分立器件产品收入在营业收入中占比67.75%。
67% of its 2022 revenue was in LNAs & switches
There are persistent questions about integrated modules & RF filters, because everyone knows that's where the money is. Qorvo itself believes that 66% of RFFE revenue in future comes from filters
截至2022年末,公司自建产线进展顺利,其中集成自产的高性能滤波器的DiFEM、L-DiFEM、GPS模组等产品已通过品牌客户稽核,并已开始逐步量产交付;自产的IPD滤波器产品也已完成工艺通线进入小批量生产阶段
Good news at end of 2022 is that their self developed front end modules with filter, switches and duplexors got put into production and they announced in half year report that 160 million SAW filter were in the modules they shipped out

If you think about it, 160 million / 20000 = 8000 wafers. That's not a lot of wafers in 6 months. But maybe they are up to 2000/month now.
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Again 3.5B RMB investment to get this line going. And finally in production at end of last year. Getting yield up for a company new to fabbing isn't easy.

From half year report
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自建产线已具备稳定、规模量产自有品牌的MAX-SAW(高端SAW滤波器,采用POI衬底,具有高频应用、高性能等特性,性能在sub-3GHz以下应用可达到BAW和FBAR的水平)的能力,公司是本土率先量产高端SAW滤波器的厂家,并通过与上游供应链的紧密合作,大幅度降低了MAX-SAW的成本结构
they claim their MAX-SAW (high end SAW) is as good as BAW/FBAR filters for sub-3GHz band. That means it cane be used in 5G modems for some band and also for 2.4 GHz wifi, gps and such

公司不断提升射频滤波器、射频功率放大器及其模组能力,助推射频前端中技术复杂度、集成度最高的“明珠型”产品L-PAMiD(主集收发模组,集成射频低噪声放大器、射频功率放大器、射频开关、双工器/四工器等器件的射频前端模组)研发。
They have their new highly integrated L-PAMiD product called 明珠型 under development. hopefully, this means it will be ready for customer testing soon.

The more of these firms can start producing modules and filters, the more gallium sanction threat is credible. If Chinese firms can supply its own rf filter, there is no concern at all with Ga sanctions, because getting cut off from foreign power amplifier modules would not hurt domestic phone makers
 

supercat

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Here is the article after removing the paywall.
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Company mum? While Huawei has not disclosed the performance of the phone, this person tested the Mate 60 with his 5G phone, and found out that the Mate 60 is significantly faster. Notice that he is in China, where real 5G network is available.
Maybe the journalists are really busy right now and will make a proper hour long video rebuttal when they finally have time. Reporting on the Chinese economic collapse is very hard work.
 

Airhouse

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Maybe the journalists are really busy right now and will make a proper hour long video rebuttal when they finally have time. Reporting on the Chinese economic collapse is very hard work.

IMO reporting on Chinese economy collapsing is easier. Just cherry pick some data or present data without context, saucing it with opinions/imagination, they got themselves some nicely cooked stories.

for mate 60 pro stories, no matter how they spin the story there is always a high chance of boomeranging on themselves:
1. If reporting HW is able to produce those chips (even with sourcing from SMIC), then that indicating sanctions are failing, hard.
2. if reporting that HW got licenses to produce those chips, then you would have readers/congressman/senators with their fists in the air and demand BIS/U.S Chamber of Commerce/Biden be grilled on why those licenses got granted.
3. Put the blame on ASML and other suppliers by saying they aren't trying hard enough to sanction.

But of course, there will always be people believing this kind of stories and thinks no further. All of all, someone got to take the blame, and it can't be the sanctions.
 

tphuang

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Company mum? While Huawei has not disclosed the performance of the phone, this person tested the Mate 60 with his 5G phone, and found out that the Mate 60 is significantly faster. Notice that he is in China, where real 5G network is available.
Taylor is a friend of my. He is pretty well versed in these things and not afraid of pointing out some of idiocy in US media

006BlblIly1hhgakzog50j31cc1aw129.jpg
数码闲聊站 posted a summary of 9000S vs 9000 vs 8+ vs 888 in various application in performance, power consumption and temperature. For various low and mid ranged games. It's all quite comparable to 888 and even 8+ in some cases.

It does seem like high end gaming performance is a little lacking, so Huawei needs to fix up its Maleeon GPU a little bit and make it better for various gaming

Needless to say, a Huawei that figures out gaming GPU is dangerous prospect for Nvidia.

also he said
早就说过货源充足全面回归啦,这次除了已经公开的Mate60 BRA-AL00,Mate60 Pro ALN-AL00/AL80,备案型号还有未上架的ALN-AL10/AL20,Mate X3也有新型号ALT-AL10,DDDD
plenty of orders here for this chip.
Will appear not only on mate 60 Pro, but also 5G X3 very soon.
 

Hendrik_2000

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I know TP Huang covered this story But bit and pieces are kind of hard to fit it together in one piece.Here is a summary of the status RF chips. I guess this is the last bottleneck for complete domestic cell phone supplier
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China reportedly overcomes BAW filter chokepoint, sparking speculations of Huawei 5G phone's return​

Staff reporter, DIGITIMES Asia, TaipeiFriday 11 August 2023
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1_b.jpg

Credit: AFP

China's Saiwei Electronics has announced sucessful mass production and "domestic substitution" of Bulk Acoustic Wave (BAW) filters. While the industry remains conservative about the immediate integration of these filters into 5G smartphones, this breakthrough resolves China's long-standing "chokepoint" when it comes to RF (Radio Frequency) module supply, and further fuels speculation about the return of Huawei 5G smartphones.

Recently, reports have emerged about the potential revival of Huawei's 5G smartphones in the Chinese market. At a Huawei Developer Conference, Huawei's Executive Director and CEO of the Consumer Business Group, Yu Chengdong, stated that after four arduous years following the US ban, the HarmonyOS ecosystem has overcome numerous challenges, leading observers to believe that Huawei smartphones are on the way back.
Previously, Huawei's Kirin chips integrated 5G baseband technology but were hampered by issues with RF modules, thus hindering its 5G capabilities and relegating them to 4G functionality. In this case, BAW filter was the main obstacle for Huawei's 5G chip ambition.

In this context, Saiwei's latest announcement that its BAW filters have entered volume production has garnered considerable attention from the Chinese mobile phone and semiconductor industry.
According to Saiwei, it jointly procured equipment with the Wuhan-based MEMSonics Technology and built a production line for 8-inch BAW filters in Beijing, with mass production starting in July 2023. The partners aim to ramp up production capacity to meet market demands.


With an undisclosed customer, Saiwei Electronics entered a long-term procurement agreement. The initial phase of cooperation between the two parties involves 12 different models of BAW filters and their derivative components. The agreement is set to be executed from August 2023 to December 2024, with a contract amount of no less than CNY100 million.

Despite Saiwei's reluctance to disclose specific customer information, the BAW filters produced under this long-term agreement will be used in products determined by the customer. However, speculation is rife that the customer is likely Huawei.
It's understood that the Phase 1 monthly production capacity of Saiwei Electronics' Beijing FAB3 facility is 10,000 units. Simultaneously, Phase 2 construction is underway, with a projected monthly capacity of 20,000 units. The cleanroom facilities for Phase 2 will result in a combined monthly production capacity of 30,000 units. This includes the dedicated BAW filter production line established in collaboration with MEMSonics.

Industry analysis indicates that in the past, China heavily relied on external suppliers for RF chips, but due to the US ban, these suppliers couldn't provide 5G RF modules to Huawei. While some companies have achieved autonomous production and domestic substitution of BAW filters, it might not immediately translate to their integration into Huawei's 5G smartphones, as filter technology requires significant expertise in both design and manufacturing processes.


For instance, the mainstream technology in BAW filters - the Film Bulk Acoustic Resonator (FBAR) - demands highly precise etching and places stringent requirements on chip manufacturing processes. Furthermore, engineers must possess comprehensive knowledge of semiconductor physics and manufacturing processes to design high-performance filters.
Apart from technological barriers, there is also an issue of market dominance. The filter sector is highly technology-intensive and primarily controlled by major players in the US and Japan, including Murata, TDK, Taiyo Yuden, and Skyworks. Collectively, these four companies hold a market share of 95%.

In the specific segment of filter components, Broadcom is the predominant player, commanding an 87% market share, while Qorvo holds 8%, resulting in a combined market share of over 95% for these two companies.
Given that China's semiconductor capabilities are still relatively behind, there has yet to emerge a domestic enterprise capable of large-scale production and supply. The few players engaged in this field, aside from Saiwei Microelectronics, include companies like Shenzhen Microgate Technology, Cixing, ROFS Microsystem, and EPIC MEMS
 
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lube

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I know TP Huang covered this story But bit and pieces are kind of hard to fit it together in one piece.Here is a summary of the status RF chips. I guess this is the last bottleneck for complete domestic cell phone supplier
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China reportedly overcomes BAW filter chokepoint, sparking speculations of Huawei 5G phone's return​

Staff reporter, DIGITIMES Asia, TaipeiFriday 11 August 2023
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


1_b.jpg

Credit: AFP

China's Saiwei Electronics has announced sucessful mass production and "domestic substitution" of Bulk Acoustic Wave (BAW) filters. While the industry remains conservative about the immediate integration of these filters into 5G smartphones, this breakthrough resolves China's long-standing "chokepoint" when it comes to RF (Radio Frequency) module supply, and further fuels speculation about the return of Huawei 5G smartphones.

Recently, reports have emerged about the potential revival of Huawei's 5G smartphones in the Chinese market. At a Huawei Developer Conference, Huawei's Executive Director and CEO of the Consumer Business Group, Yu Chengdong, stated that after four arduous years following the US ban, the HarmonyOS ecosystem has overcome numerous challenges, leading observers to believe that Huawei smartphones are on the way back.
Previously, Huawei's Kirin chips integrated 5G baseband technology but were hampered by issues with RF modules, thus hindering its 5G capabilities and relegating them to 4G functionality. In this case, BAW filter was the main obstacle for Huawei's 5G chip ambition.

In this context, Saiwei's latest announcement that its BAW filters have entered volume production has garnered considerable attention from the Chinese mobile phone and semiconductor industry.
According to Saiwei, it jointly procured equipment with the Wuhan-based MEMSonics Technology and built a production line for 8-inch BAW filters in Beijing, with mass production starting in July 2023. The partners aim to ramp up production capacity to meet market demands.


With an undisclosed customer, Saiwei Electronics entered a long-term procurement agreement. The initial phase of cooperation between the two parties involves 12 different models of BAW filters and their derivative components. The agreement is set to be executed from August 2023 to December 2024, with a contract amount of no less than CNY100 million.

Despite Saiwei's reluctance to disclose specific customer information, the BAW filters produced under this long-term agreement will be used in products determined by the customer. However, speculation is rife that the customer is likely Huawei.
It's understood that the Phase 1 monthly production capacity of Saiwei Electronics' Beijing FAB3 facility is 10,000 units. Simultaneously, Phase 2 construction is underway, with a projected monthly capacity of 20,000 units. The cleanroom facilities for Phase 2 will result in a combined monthly production capacity of 30,000 units. This includes the dedicated BAW filter production line established in collaboration with MEMSonics.

Industry analysis indicates that in the past, China heavily relied on external suppliers for RF chips, but due to the US ban, these suppliers couldn't provide 5G RF modules to Huawei. While some companies have achieved autonomous production and domestic substitution of BAW filters, it might not immediately translate to their integration into Huawei's 5G smartphones, as filter technology requires significant expertise in both design and manufacturing processes.


For instance, the mainstream technology in BAW filters - the Film Bulk Acoustic Resonator (FBAR) - demands highly precise etching and places stringent requirements on chip manufacturing processes. Furthermore, engineers must possess comprehensive knowledge of semiconductor physics and manufacturing processes to design high-performance filters.
Apart from technological barriers, there is also an issue of market dominance. The filter sector is highly technology-intensive and primarily controlled by major players in the US and Japan, including Murata, TDK, Taiyo Yuden, and Skyworks. Collectively, these four companies hold a market share of 95%.

In the specific segment of filter components, Broadcom is the predominant player, commanding an 87% market share, while Qorvo holds 8%, resulting in a combined market share of over 95% for these two companies.
Given that China's semiconductor capabilities are still relatively behind, there has yet to emerge a domestic enterprise capable of large-scale production and supply. The few players engaged in this field, aside from Saiwei Microelectronics, include companies like Shenzhen Microgate Technology, Cixing, ROFS Microsystem, and EPIC MEMS

I don't think many people (not this forum though!) really understood what it meant when we say Huawei was going to drag the entire domestic industry along with them.

It wasn't like the people working on this popped out of thin air after the US sanctions. The expertise and talent was always there, but it sure was convenient to point to the domestic industry's past performance and pretend they are a non-factor when they dreamed up these tech sanctions.
 

tphuang

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I don't think many people (not this forum though!) really understood what it meant when we say Huawei was going to drag the entire domestic industry along with them.

It wasn't like the people working on this popped out of thin air after the US sanctions. The expertise and talent was always there, but it sure was convenient to point to the domestic industry's past performance and pretend they are a non-factor when they dreamed up these tech sanctions.
well, it's actually not accurate to say this is entirely a domestic phone, because it definitely still uses SK memory chips and that will be a sanction risk. And also some Taiwanese components (don't want to get into a debate on this, Taiwanese stuff definitely have sanction risks also). But aside from that, if you just consider all the different components they have and the drivers you need.

For example, even for the OLED screen, you need chips. And guess what, with BOE screen, you still need OLED driver. With battery, you need battery management chip. And then you got your camera and the chip for that. And of course, all the RF chips and processing chips you need. you have 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, satcom, wifi, bluetooth, nfc and everything else. so many chips

And now if you amplify that to pads, laptops, watches, other wearables, ear buds, smart screen, IoT. So many things that once Huawei can ramp up production of these chips bw itself & suppliers, it can sanction proof those consumer electronics.

And then you consider how much of the consumer eletronics field is dominated by Chinese companies. wow, suddenly, China is no longer importing ridiculous amount chips every year.

And suddenly Hisilicon generates as much revenue as Qualcomm, braodcom & qorvo combined.
 
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