It didn't say anything about the light source, but it did say something about the general approach Changchun took for its EUV machine. Supposedly it's relying on power output and sheer brute force over optics accuracy to achieve results and lower the cost of production. The trade-off is worse lifespan and power consumption/needier cooling requirements. The result is a machine that is cheap to produce and replace but worse in lifespan and rather costly to run, according to the post.
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Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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My comment was directed at the EUV announcement not which scanner was used for The Kirin 9000.
The original source weibo. I doubt it is some sort of high-tech equipment seeing how this guy seems like an average tech blogger. Maybe an old style acid rinse and he somehow took a photo with some sort of x-ray camera? He might just be spit balling.
TBH, it would be much easier just to use an electron microscope assuming one is well trained in its operations and know what to look for.
If this is LPP it basically sounds like they developed a very good light source but didn’t spend as much time designing a better tuned optics system or solving secondary reliability issues. Sounds very much like a stopgap product to get started with. Wonder if the Shanghai team is working on a higher quality instrument.It didn't say anything about the light source, but it did say something about the general approach Changchun took for its EUV machine. Supposedly it's relying on power output and sheer brute force over optics accuracy to achieve results and lower the cost of production. The trade-off is worse lifespan and power consumption/needier cooling requirements. The result is a machine that is cheap to produce and replace but worse in lifespan and rather costly to run, according to the post.
Yeah, this does seem like an interim solution until better machines can be made. Still, as you already commented, such a machine is still invaluable for gaining experience with EUV and for initial production of more advanced nodes.If this is LPP it basically sounds like they developed a very good light source but didn’t spend as much time designing a better tuned optics system or solving secondary reliability issues. Sounds very much like a stopgap product to get started with. Wonder if the Shanghai team is working on a higher quality instrument.
Huawei would probably pay SMIC for the additional cost of setting up production with these instruments lol.Yeah, this does seem like an interim solution until better machines can be made. Still, as you already commented, such a machine is still invaluable for gaining experience with EUV and for initial production of more advanced nodes.
This is big news. Like, strategic-level significance kind of news.Maybe this would finally have a chilly effect and prompt Chinese domestic firms to accelerate adoption of Chinese alternatives. It could also open up Middle East market for Chinese semiconductor firms as the US expands the restrictions of high tech to more countries.
We are seeing the US actively trying to enforce a digital OPEC. Its expanding its tech chip sanctions now to other countries to force them to submit to US' geopolitical considerations
However this
China has a huge opportunity here. It should open up (negotiate) its (non-advanced) semi-conductor equipment market to the Gulf states so that they can pour literally unlimited amount of money into growing these companies.
That's for the upstream, for downstream, this will only serve Chinese companies selling similar products with Nvidia. Although they are going to have their hands full with trying to serve the Chinese market in the coming years, Gulf infinite money glitch would be more than welcome to super-charge this process.
Honestly, that's one huge own goal for the US. The only thing they achieve with this is they provoke and wake up Gulf countries' from their slumber to start pouring infinite money to the only non-Western chip supplier, China lol.
Biden is going to get a big fat L on this.
Btw given Huawei's presence and connections in the Gulf, they must shaking in glee with anticipation of what to come. Without taking into account technical specs, just for marketing and sales channels alone they will have a huge advantage against other Chinese competitors on selling their products there
And given that Huawei is actually US' biggest nemesis now, helping to increase Huawei's growth rate, market, revenue, profit is another L for the US, only happening by their own making lmao
Its just L after L after L. There is no light in the tunnel for the US. It just likes to keep digging that (quite deep already) hole
Truly a gift that keeps on giving. This basically cedes the Middle East market to China since Chinese Atlas 900 clusters can rival A100's and H100 (??) from Nvidia. Can someone confirm the H100 bit?
Don't these idiots know you don't need bleeding edge nodes to make top tier AI GPUs? Don't interrupt the enemy while they are making a mistake! More AI sanctions, the better. This will give domestic companies only one choice (national resiliency) instead of pure economic motivations.
This was already on the US msm radar:
Saudi Arabia and UAE race to buy Nvidia chips to power AI ambitions
UAE launches Arabic large language model in Gulf push into generative AI
so it was expected somehow....and actually it arrived timely.
In the articles they suggest this is due because those labs are "primarily staffed by Chinese researchers", but I think the reason is different.
Jais has also been designed to have a more accurate understanding of the culture and context of the region, in contrast to most US-centric models,
US wants all the world to use their models, because their models are "safe and responsible" and are aligned with US "values" (i.e. with US narrative).
For regions historically under US heavy influence, like Europe, there is little hope to escape uncle Sam "values", but for China, Arab countries and other parts of the world, the game is open.
I agree this will give China AI and semi companies an advantage in the medium term: Arabs will not forget this last shot, when time will come they will take revenge on it..and of course China will be part of the solution.
antiterror13
Brigadier
5 March 2020 ?Some people say that the marking “2035” on Huawei SOC isn't the production date，rather it is a memorial date，the day Huawei hit by US sanction and forbid to use TSMC service
Not only should China export semiconductor equipment to the Gulf States, but it should get them to invest in and bankroll Chinese GPU startups and AI machine learning frameworks similar to how Softbank bankrolls ARM. Currently, there are around 70 neural network models under development by various companies in China, far more than rest of the world combined. There simply aren't enough domestic venture capital to fund development of this scale. Not all of them will survive, but Gulf State investment would help ensure that most of them, at minimum, have a chance to thrive. Likewise, not Chinese GPU startups will survive, but all it takes is a handful of survivors to dethrone Nvidia's dominance. Gulf State investment should supplement the currently underdeveloped Chinese venture capital. Imagine a future where Saudi AI uses Biren + Baidu Paddle and UAE MetaX + Huawei Mindspore? Now that's the multipolar future I want to see.This is big news. Like, strategic-level significance kind of news.
We are seeing the US actively trying to enforce a digital OPEC. Its expanding its tech chip sanctions now to other countries to force them to submit to US' geopolitical considerations
However thismightwill prove to be a huge mistake, as with the Gulf States now served a notice that they are the next to go to the chopping block by the US, they will mobilize their vast financial resources to grow non-western competitors.
China has a huge opportunity here. It should open up (negotiate) its (non-advanced) semi-conductor equipment market to the Gulf states so that they can pour literally unlimited amount of money into growing these companies.
That's for the upstream, for downstream, this will only serve Chinese companies selling similar products with Nvidia. Although they are going to have their hands full with trying to serve the Chinese market in the coming years, Gulf infinite money glitch would be more than welcome to super-charge this process.
Honestly, that's one huge own goal for the US. The only thing they achieve with this is they provoke and wake up Gulf countries' from their slumber to start pouring infinite money to the only non-Western chip supplier, China lol.
Biden is going to get a big fat L on this.
Btw given Huawei's presence and connections in the Gulf, they must shaking in glee with anticipation of what to come. Without taking into account technical specs, just for marketing and sales channels alone they will have a huge advantage against other Chinese competitors on selling their products there
And given that Huawei is actually US' biggest nemesis now, helping to increase Huawei's growth rate, market, revenue, profit is another L for the US, only happening by their own making lmao
Its just L after L after L. There is no light in the tunnel for the US. It just likes to keep digging that (quite deep already) hole
【「一水」70个大模型逐鹿中原，我们的AI根技术到底行不行？-哔哩哔哩】
BTW, 一水遮夏 is a great channel to learn about developments in Chinese semiconductor industry
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