Chinese semiconductor industry

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Oldschool

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Gotcha, so until the supply chain is fully de-americanized this is just how it is.
US government is sneaky, it won't push SMIC all the way like Huawei or else it would revolt and join hand with Huawei. It just limit SMIC above 10nm and need continue to buy from US for above 10nm.

Or going rogue, take TSMC fab at Nanjing and hand to Huawei.
 

RavenClaws

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US government is sneaky, it won't push SMIC all the way like Huawei or else it would revolt and join hand with Huawei. It just limit SMIC above 10nm and need continue to buy from US for above 10nm.

Or going rogue, take TSMC fab at Nanjing and hand to Huawei.
Typical mafia tactics.

Is there any point in taking TSMC fabs that also require American supplies? Seems like the only way out is full domestic technological independence, and then out-compete.

Even if you take over all of TSMC, if you still rely on American suppliers and American parts in ASML's machines, it'll be the same situation as SMIC right now.

Chinese government must be aware of all this, and has not taken any rash throw-the-kitchen-sink bullshit like the US has for now.
 

Oldschool

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Typical mafia tactics.

Is there any point in taking TSMC fabs that also require American supplies? Seems like the only way out is full domestic technological independence, and then out-compete.

Even if you take over all of TSMC, if you still rely on American suppliers and American parts in ASML's machines, it'll be the same situation as SMIC right now.

Chinese government must be aware of all this, and has not taken any rash throw-the-kitchen-sink bullshit like the US has for now.
All the equipments are in the fab. It will last for a while. It can buy time till localization comes onboard. Or whatever time it can mustered is bonus. Localization effort will take a while.

Huawei can sue TSMC under the current new law about violating contract following US long arm jurisdiction against domestic player

All China government has to do is revoke TSMC permit to operate And TSMC will have to sell and have to pay for damages from revoking contract

China government definitely has the right to do that..

Now it's up the Huawei to launch the lawsuit against TSMC for damages. That fab can be targeted for part of compensation.
 
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Oldschool

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Nothing mafia about that
China government draws up a framework allows Huawei go after TSMC assets for compensation in lawsuits.

The key is front of Huawei. Unless it's being too nice and enjoy the martyr or victim nice guy role. Troubling comment from owner saying despite US trying to kill Huawei, Huawei won't hold any grudges.
 
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mderfox

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Nothing mafia about that
China government draws up a framework allows Huawei go after TSMC assets for compensation in lawsuits.

The key is front of Huawei. Unless it's being too nice and enjoy the martyr or victim nice guy role. Troubling comment from owner saying despite US trying to kill Huawei, Huawei won't hold any grudges.
Hard to say. TSMC is huge, Huawei need TSMC if they want growth fast. Maybe Huawei still have chance to cooperate under biden administration. So the law will be last trump card.

Did you believe what Huawei owner says. Its just diplomatic word, this company kill many business competitor inside and outside China doesn't seem to me Mr. nice guys.

If national resources is tilt in this semiconductor sector there is no doubt breakthrough will achieve in fastest time. In return it will slow down national R&D in other sector.

There is no need Einstein level to overcome difficulties, Oppenheimer style is much better in current situation.
 

Oldschool

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Hard to say. TSMC is huge, Huawei need TSMC if they want growth fast. Maybe Huawei still have chance to cooperate under biden administration. So the law will be last trump card.

Did you believe what Huawei owner says. Its just diplomatic word, this company kill many business competitor inside and outside China doesn't seem to me Mr. nice guys.

If national resources is tilt in this semiconductor sector there is no doubt breakthrough will achieve in fastest time. In return it will slow down national R&D in other sector.

There is no need Einstein level to overcome difficulties, Oppenheimer style is much better in current situation.
Biden admin is not going lift any sanctions on Huawei. They are staying. They are bipartisan consensus. Huawei going after TSMC for damages is the right thing to do.
 

Nutrient

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but [Huawei] is only half as profitable [as TSMC] ($9.9 billion vs $19.59 billion).
Huawei is extremely profitable despite the heavy US sanctions. In a year or two, those sanctions will be irrelevant when mainland suppliers gear up.

What's more, mainland manufacturers will supply most mainland semiconductor needs quite soon, and TSMC will lose big time. So which company has a brighter future?
 
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BlackWindMnt

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Huawei is extremely profitable despite the heavy US sanctions. In a year or two, those sanctions will be irrelevant when mainland suppliers gear up.

What's more, mainland manufacturers will supply most mainland semiconductor needs quite soon, and TSMC will lose big time. So which company has a brighter future?
Taiwan's semi conductor diplomacy will bite TSMC hard when more and more of their bottom line will be eroded away by mainland manufacturers and of course other regions in the world wanting to bring manufacturing of semi conductor more regional.
 
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