Chinese semiconductor industry

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sunnymaxi

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This is overly optimistic. The 28nm lithography tool for example is not in use in production anywhere and they haven't built the production lines to make the main components nor the assembly factory for the whole machines. The tools have also not been validated in actual production conditions. Heck, SMEE has had a 90nm tool for like a decade, and no one uses it because it is basically not production ready.
unbelievable. you are one of the most active member on this forum. still act like, you know nothing.

SMEE's 90nm serial production has already begun.

SMEE's 28nm machine verifying.

RsLaser and other suppliers expanding the production. @tokenanalyst posted many times about suppliers expansion.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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It is precisely because I have been active here that I said what I said. I have been hearing about the 28nm litho tool being just around the corner for like three years at this point. Progress is glacial.

At least other companies like AMEC have had much more success. With even export sales of the tools that they do make. So it is not like it is all bad. But there are many weak spots that is for sure.
 

sunnymaxi

Major
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It is precisely because I have been active here that I said what I said. I have been hearing about the 28nm litho tool being just around the corner for like three years at this point. Progress is glacial.

At least other companies like AMEC have had much more success with even export sales of the tools that they do make.
28nm immersion is no joke. even you know that.

'I have been hearing about the 28nm litho tool being just around the corner for like three years at this point'

this is true. SMEE was unable to produce workable machine due to technological bottlenecks.


but things have changed in 2021.

havok confirmed this news.

all technological problem/issues have solved regarding immersion machine.
 

tphuang

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I think it's important to remember what we already discussed to not hyperventilate.

The part about America banning any machines with its parts on DUVi has been discussed several pages and we were trying to figure out what other than Cymer lasers need to be replaced. ASML itself doesn't see its sales to China affected by this, which I think means it see continued sales of de-americanized scanners as the most likely scenario.

As for not servicing 7nm scanners, that will be annoying, but they somehow have been able to continue to run the AMAT/Lam tools without any support. Maintaining it for another a few more years seem possible.

The most important part is that they've been able to fast track 2050i/2100i deliveries so that they get all they need for a few years. Other than servicing, I don't see too much effect here. At this point, I think they have enough 2050i around. Let's just put it that way.

Ga and Ge. Let's see how they implement this. I think they should ban all exports to US, Japan & Netherlands. Sorry @BoraTas, but Nexperia likely to be affected given the no servicing clause that Dutch gov't implemented

None of this to say the sanctions haven't affected China's advanced chipmaking.

SMIC's 5nm development likely have been slowed down for 2 year
7nm is the focus, but production likely can't increase until 2025
12/14nm will get de-americanized, but production likely can't increase until early 2024

focus forced to shift from Finfet to more R&D on completing 28/40nm processes. That's important, people

DRAM progress slowed down because CXMT is bad

YMTC got hurt the most. 232 layers production either flat or going down for a couple of years
convert 64 layers to 128 layers and they can ramp up 128 layers as much as possible
Again, late this year or 2024 effort
Hasn't hurt them too much in sales since overall market is down
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
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Things have gone way past the point where only products with US components in them were a problem. One example is the Nikon lithography tools. They use Japanese light sources, Gigaphoton, and yet it seems Japan basically banned all Nikon DUV litho tool sales to China. Not just immersion even.

The governments of Netherlands and Japan have been "convinced" by the US to sanction sales of tools. That is it. Thus far the Japanese government seems to have been way more eager to implement the sanctions, but it remains to be seen if the US won't use this to pressure the Dutch and ASML to follow through in a similar fashion.
 

tphuang

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Things have gone way past the point where only products with US components in them were a problem. One example is the Nikon lithography tools. They use Japanese light sources, Gigaphoton, and yet it seems Japan basically banned all Nikon DUV litho tool sales to China. Not just immersion even.

The governments of Netherlands and Japan have been "convinced" by the US to sanction sales of tools. That is it. Thus far the Japanese government seems to have been way more eager to implement the sanctions, but it remains to be seen if the US won't use this to pressure the Dutch and ASML to follow through in a similar fashion.
Dutch gov't has not banned sales of 1980i and below. It's just that they cannot contain American components. As such, ASML needs to de-americanize.

Again, China just need 1 or 2 years of holding things together.

Stop the alarmist talk. It's not conducive to this thread
i don't know how to Quote old massages. this thread is already too lengthy. 2631 pages.

i just take screen-shot for future discussions.

but i shall try to quote original text posted by the members.
sorry, i thought these were new comments that he just made
 
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