Chinese semiconductor industry

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HighGround

Senior Member
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From a POV of "Live or Die" it certainly isn't a big deal.

However, what I've learned after the Covid-19 pandemic (where I was also dismissive of the economic fallout), is that any disruption to highly sensitive supply chains is a massive headache and could potentially take weeks/months to resolve. So certainly, China won't suffer too much from such sanctions, but these things add up.

It's much better to have successful import substitution quietly, rather than having to go through "shock therapy" via sanctions and embargos.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
Looks like this EUV light source prototype is successful have have 0.5nm accuracy. not sure how good that is.

Okay, I am going to start talking out of my ass on this, because I really don't know much about it, but if they say that this is what it could do, I think we should get two takeaways from it.

1. They were able to master the tech to produce the laser light, enough power, at the correct wavelength (forget now, maybe 13.5 something something), and be accurate in firing it at the target such as precision movement of the gun (or workbench if the laser gun is stationary, which I assume it is).

2. This laser light resolution of 0.5 nm (I assume that is what that is) that is kind of very find. It is like computer graphics I suppose, like 300 dpi, or 720 dpi, or HD. If they got to zap a path of 2 nm wide on a silicone wafer, and their tool can etch at 0.5 nm, then zap their ass you know. Assuming that is what is being said.

:oops::D


Note, just my non-expert opinion, not even a scientist or engineer, but we should remember some basic physics. Light travels in waves, or particles. To get the right wavelength, is not an easy task here. The light has to pass through some prism to get that right wavelength. Do you see the rainbow? That is due to the sunlight passing through the water mist in the air. The rainbow can appear randomly anywhere. But to etch that path on a silicone chip, which is a transistor and a transistor is just something that an have an electrical current to pass through, such as your binary light switch. I always keep the lights off when I am drinking or in the fetal position in the corner. Anyways, If you are able to get the right wavelength, you still got to aim it at what you want to etch, and that part I got no clue, do not know anything about how the laser light aiming would work in this case.
 
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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

NAURA will officially enter a new stage of 10-billion-level development in 2022, and this year’s Q1 revenue will increase by 81.26% year-on-year​


1415697946170.8188942339835717.8145.jpeg

The numbers:

April 28, NAURA released its 2022 annual performance report, stating that the annual revenue was 14.688 billion yuan, a year-on-year increase of 51.68%, and the company's operating income was "ten billion" leapfrog; it belongs to shareholders of listed companies The net profit of the company was 2.353 billion yuan, a year-on-year increase of 118.37%; the net profit attributable to shareholders of listed companies after deducting non-recurring gains and losses was 2.106 billion yuan, a year-on-year increase of 161.07%.

Etching:
-The cumulative shipment of ICP etching products has exceeded 2,000 cavities.
-The 12-inch high-density, low-damage design The 1-inch plasma degumming machine has completed process verification and mass production in many customers.
-metal etching equipment has become the preferred machine for domestic mainstream customers due to its stable mass production performance.
-iteratively upgraded high aspect ratio TSV etching equipment, with its excellent The performance has passed the client process verification and supports Chiplet process applications.
-the 12-inch CCP edge etching machine used to improve chip yield has entered multiple production lines for verification; precisely targeting customer needs, a dual-frequency coupling CCP dielectric etching machine has been released , to achieve full coverage in silicon etching, metal etching, and dielectric etching processes.

Thin film equipment:
breakthroughs have been made in many core key technologies such as physical vapor deposition, chemical vapor deposition and atomic layer deposition, copper interconnect thin film deposition, aluminum thin film deposition, tungsten thin film deposition, hard mask deposition, dielectric film deposition, TSV thin film deposition.

- The cumulative shipments exceed 3,000 cavities, supporting the mass production applications of domestic mainstream customers.

Furnaces:
In terms of vertical furnace equipment, medium-temperature oxidation/annealing furnaces, high-temperature oxidation/annealing furnaces, low-temperature alloy furnaces, low-pressure chemical vapor deposition furnaces, and batch-type atomic layer deposition furnaces have become mass production equipment for domestic mainstream customers, and continue to receive repeated orders.

In terms of horizontal furnace tube equipment, it mainly provides photovoltaic customers with boron expansion, phosphorus expansion, oxidation annealing, front/back film silicon nitride deposition

- Cumulative shipment of more than 500 units.

epitaxial equipment:
In terms of epitaxial equipment, the products mainly include SiC epitaxial furnaces, silicon-based GaN epitaxial furnaces, 6/8-inch multi-wafer silicon epitaxial furnaces, 8-inch single-wafer silicon epitaxial furnaces, and 12-inch single-wafer silicon epitaxial furnaces.

-The cumulative shipments of nearly a thousand(~1000) cavities cover the application needs of integrated circuits, power devices, silicon materials, and third-generation semiconductors.

In terms of cleaning equipment, it has two technology platforms: single-chip cleaning and tank cleaning, which are mainly used in the field of 12-inch integrated circuits. The single chip cleaning machine covers all processes of Al/Cu process, and is the preferred machine for the downstream process of domestic mainstream manufacturers; the tank cleaning machine has covered RCA, Gate, PRstrip, phosphoric acid, Recycle and other processes, and has been implemented in many clients Mass production, repeated orders.

, More than 20 types of process equipment such as polysilicon deposition, polysilicon doping, tunneling oxide layer deposition, heterojunction amorphous silicon film deposition, etc., are suitable for PERC, TOPCon, HJT and other technical routes and process applications, achieving full coverage of mainstream customers.

Intelectual Property:
As of the end of 2022, the company has applied for more than 6,800 patents and has obtained more than 3,900 authorized patents.

2023:
On the same day, North Huachuang also released its performance report for the first quarter of 2023, stating that it achieved revenue of 3.871 billion yuan in the quarter, a year-on-year increase of 81.26%.

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latenlazy

Brigadier
Okay, I am going to start talking out of my ass on this, because I really don't know much about it, but if they say that this is what it could do, I think we should get two takeaways from it.

1. They were able to master the tech to produce the laser light, enough power, at the correct wavelength (forget now, maybe 13.5 something something), and be accurate in firing it at the target such as precision movement of the gun (or workbench if the laser gun is stationary, which I assume it is).

2. This laser light resolution of 0.5 nm (I assume that is what that is) that is kind of very find. It is like computer graphics I suppose, like 300 dpi, or 720 dpi, or HD. If they got to zap a path of 2 nm wide on a silicone wafer, and their tool can etch at 0.5 nm, then zap their ass you know. Assuming that is what is being said.

:oops::D


Note, just my non-expert opinion, not even a scientist or engineer, but we should remember some basic physics. Light travels in waves, or particles. To get the right wavelength, is not an easy task here. The light has to pass through some prism to get that right wavelength. Do you see the rainbow? That is due to the sunlight passing through the water mist in the air. The rainbow can appear randomly anywhere. But to etch that path on a silicone chip, which is a transistor and a transistor is just something that an have an electrical current to pass through, such as your binary light switch. I always keep the lights off when I am drinking or in the fetal position in the corner. Anyways, If you are able to get the right wavelength, you still got to aim it at what you want to etch, and that part I got no clue, do not know anything about how the laser light aiming would work in this case.
0.5 nm accuracy means there's a variance of 0.5 nm. It does not mean the resolution is 0.5 nm.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
It's so funny for me to watch these "news" doing stupid takes 6 months ago saying YMTC is not going to last 3 weeks and now saying that YMTC is going to benefit from Micron's demise in China
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What do you expect to happen?

yeah, YMTC can sell it so much cheaper than Samsung. In fact, it has gone below even 500 RMB! And as I documented, a long list of Chinese SSD brands using their product. The key issue here is that YMTC needs to ramp up production

Funnily enough, this was predicted almost 2 years ago by Dylan patel of all people
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No idea if they still have 64-layer production and how high their 128-layer yield is, but I hope those get addressed in this next year, so that when they are ready to ramp up fab 2, they can quickly increase market share

btw, Intel continues to be a super disaster
but US senators want to stop selling chips to Chinese cloud providers? have fun Intel

So far I only use Samsung SSD, well my first SSD was from Intel way way back >10 yrs ago. Samsung SSD is extremely good and reliable, so happy so far

My question is .. do you guys have a real experience of using Chinese SSD with YMTC? how are the performance, reliability and software ?

I know over time will get better and better like Samsung was (~10 yrs ago Intel SSD was the king)
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
So far I only use Samsung SSD, well my first SSD was from Intel way way back >10 yrs ago. Samsung SSD is extremely good and reliable, so happy so far

My question is .. do you guys have a real experience of using Chinese SSD with YMTC? how are the performance, reliability and software ?

I know over time will get better and better like Samsung was (~10 yrs ago Intel SSD was the king)
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The Acer Predator GM7 is a fast and very efficient PCIe 4.0 SSD. In fact, it’s the most efficient SSD we have tested to date by a significant amount. The GM7's all-around performance is good to great, and its performance in sustained workloads is also quite good. The drive is also single-sided and runs cool, making it one of the
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for laptops and one of the
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.
The GM7 is also noteworthy for using NAND flash from the China-based YMTC fab, but it doesn't use the company's newest 232-Layer TLC flash, meaning the best might be yet to come.

Acer’s drives are built by
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, a company that also supplies HP. The Predator GM7 uses a new Maxiotek controller that can push the limits of the PCIe 4.0 interface with just four channels. More interestingly, this drive also uses 3D TLC flash from YMTC, a China-based foundry. Recent
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have taken YMTC from being disruptive, with the first 232-Layer flash on the market, to a pariah, as it lost a contract with
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and may be unable to import its flash to the U.S. This has been
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for the NAND manufacturer. Our current Predator GM7 sample uses a revised version of YMTC’s 128-Layer flash, but the more performant 232-Layer variant is promised and would make for an even better drive. Competing drives will likely arrive with Micron’s 232-Layer TLC and the TenaFe TC2201 controller, but the GM7 is the efficiency king for now.

EDIT:

The drive performance isn't exceptional in the sense that it's miles ahead of everyone else. However, it is easily one of the best performing drives in the market for its price and the product category it is competing in. I can't speak for other Chinese drives, but this one is good. Keep in mind, that when it comes to consumer devices, the assembler is just as important as who makes the components.

I can make a very shitty SSD even if I used YMTC's latest NAND offerings. Assemblers aren't just glorified sticker printers. They matter. Not to mention the post-sale support, bait-and-switch tactics, or complete lack of transparency regarding specs...
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
So far I only use Samsung SSD, well my first SSD was from Intel way way back >10 yrs ago. Samsung SSD is extremely good and reliable, so happy so far

My question is .. do you guys have a real experience of using Chinese SSD with YMTC? how are the performance, reliability and software ?

I know over time will get better and better like Samsung was (~10 yrs ago Intel SSD was the king)
You can look at the reviews of it on JD.com (look for TiPlus SSD, its YTMC's in house brand)
 
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