Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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Funny you mentioned tariffs. Because Chinese gov's position on foreign semiconductor equipments，seems to be the exact opposite of what people on this thread wish for. Last year Chinese gov released some policies to facilitate the growth of semiconductor sector，tariff exemption on imported SME is one of those policies. Apparently，the Chinese gov encourage companies to import more foreign SME，as oppose to discourage it
No point buying from Chinese vendors if they’re not ready. Government will backstop them one way or another so fabs should be buying based on their needs. You don’t get improvement by compromising in performance for nationalism/national security.
This Americans companies think that they can escape export controls by manufacturing their tools in South East Asia through subsidiaries "Seagate style" but that is a loophole that i have been reading that the Hawks are looking to close. Also there are voices among the national security hawks to expand export controls also to mature nodes.
The guys from GTASemiconductors (Jita) think they are safe because they only made SIC power chips and 40nm logic chips But they are not if the hammer extend to mature nodes. they will end with machines that they will have to maintain themselves.
The bidding competition should be among Chinese companies and then if there is no local alternative try to include non-US options. I just too dangerous to depend on companies that are the mercy of the will of D.C. anti-China Hawks.
The guys from GTASemiconductors (Jita) think they are safe because they only made SIC power chips and 40nm logic chips But they are not if the hammer extend to mature nodes. they will end with machines that they will have to maintain themselves.
The bidding competition should be among Chinese companies and then if there is no local alternative try to include non-US options. I just too dangerous to depend on companies that are the mercy of the will of D.C. anti-China Hawks.
There is a bidding process for "fairness", I guess Jita ( GTASemi) evaluated in a point base system taking account performance and disponibility. If AMAT South East Asia won the first place then there should be a second and third place. It would be nice to see all the participants point score and see if there is real merit to AMAT-SEA winning the bid because if NAURA (a domestic company) ALD systems for example lost for just 5-10 points in a 100 point score then the system is not helping the much needed localization at all.
But at the same time, if China completely and utterly closed the door on American semiconductor equipment, then they would never bother fighting against the anti-china hawks. Sure it may be a pointless fight, but at least there's some money and voices that could delay or blunt whatever anti-china policies are sure to come. Remove that and everybody would just pile onto the same "hold back China" bandwagon and ask the politicians to increase sanctions.
And it would send a message to other parts of the industry. Would ASML still be fighting against further sanctions if they knew that they will be completely shut out of the market once China has a competitive DUVi product?
And it would send a message to other parts of the industry. Would ASML still be fighting against further sanctions if they knew that they will be completely shut out of the market once China has a competitive DUVi product?
I always thought that even through their SEA subsidiaries they still had some US inputs whether through IP/components/etc so they would have still gotten nailed under FDPR if they lowered the content thresholds but maybe for certain product lines such as those for mature nodes they can truly operate without any US content so for certain items the SEA for regulatory purposes operate outside of US jurisdiction. Of course, only they know that and can represent as such but if true, the only business interruption would be through their incorporated countries in SEA. Now, Chinese end users are free to accept that representation at par value or not, but it gives them another option with domestic customers backlogged and at this point, you need to build up the capacity asap and if you have confidence you can maintain the tools there really is no opportunity loss to domestic customers since they are full up at the moment. Personally, if I were in charge of procurement I would use a scoring matrix where points are assigned based on capability, reliability, delivery, risk, etc. For example, if AMAT and NAURA were tied on everything but risk the bid would go to NARA as a lower risk based on localization but if NAURA cannot deliver for another 12 months and AMAT can do it in 3 then it may go AMAT's way.
At this point lobbying the US government is like talking to a brick wall, but China is showing them another option to keep a foothold, even if reduced in the market. 10% of a huge and growing market is always better than zero. If China allows them to maintain a viable business through their SEA subsidiaries for mature nodes, it sends a message that the door is open and it is up to them to take the next steps. If they are willing to de-risk more of their business through their SEA subsidiaries, it is a win-win for everyone except the US government. Domestic self-sufficiency does not mean shutting the door to external partners, it just means the terms of participation have changed to de-risk the chance of business interruptions. If international companies are willing to sign up for that, all the better for the market.
I think it's important to go into the details here. Just the total number is not very useful IMO.
So here we have:
- Cadence EDA tools (5 units). This is a topic where China still lags 4/5 years behind, according to the Chinese EDA producers. For some reason US has still not banned EDA tools, but when they will do it will be a heavy blow for China.
- AMAT deposition equipment (3 units). Here NAURA or Piotech can be a direct competitors, the reason why they choose AMAT is unknown. Maybe delivery time were critical or maybe equipment is special. Customer is Hangzhou Jihai Semiconductor (杭州积海半导体). It seems they are building a 300mm advanced fab that is a special application.
- Axcelis Ion implantation for SiC. Traditionally US dominated ion implantation. Today we have 2 Chinese firms that are able to offer an alternative, but they are still ramping up production and here we are referring to a special ion implantation equipment for SiC.
- Tektronik measurement system. FWIK no local Chinese producer is at level of Tektronix / Advantest / etc. Moreover Tektronix has (still) not been banned.
- PEM instrumentation. I'm not able to find this manufacturer.
All in all I don't see anything strange in these numbers. US firms still sell where there is no strong local competition.
SMIC said on the interactive platform today that the mass production time of SMIC Beijing is expected to be in the second half of this year.
The company's OEM products are widely used in different fields such as mobile phones, consumer electronics, smart home, industry and automobiles. In 2022, the company's integrated circuit wafer manufacturing foundry revenue is divided by application. Smartphones, consumer electronics, smart home, and other applications account for 27%, 23%, 14%, and 36% respectively.
The company's OEM products are widely used in different fields such as mobile phones, consumer electronics, smart home, industry and automobiles. In 2022, the company's integrated circuit wafer manufacturing foundry revenue is divided by application. Smartphones, consumer electronics, smart home, and other applications account for 27%, 23%, 14%, and 36% respectively.
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