Chinese semiconductor industry

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paiemon

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Maybe havok talked too much and got told to stop releasing so many secrets. Btw, it's good to hear from this SMIC JingCheng employee also. A lot of what he says just seem realistic. I bet MU employees are having the same conversation about C919 right now. This is a business and it's hard to get the yield with a mostly "made in China" line vs ones using American tools, but that's not a choice SMIC or China can make right now. So the workers need to suck it up and deal with the annoyance of validating a de-americanized production line.

And yes, it's hard for SMIC to do an all China line when things are not mature. The Chinese gov't really needs to step in and just give them money or just continue to have ICRD to keep validating domestic products.
I think it comes down to opportunity cost. If it were a question of who is best at implementing localization, you would call on SMIC because they have the subject matter expertise across multiple nodes, products, experience with HVM and also using non-US tools. But keep in mind SMIC is also running flat out for existing customers, expansions and building capacity in advanced nodes. Every resource you put into localization takes away from those, and the staff are a limiting factor. So unless they get an influx of personnel or put certain projects on hold, it is challenging for them to retool and maintain existing operations at the same time. Realistically, SMIC will probably just continue to work on it in phases alongside their existing projects. If full attention needs to given, ICRD is a better option. I don't think its a money issue, there are only so many qualified people available for this and they are spread thin.
 

tokenanalyst

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bidding result from this week. looks 7 out of 20 tools are domestic this week. No mention of what SMEE won in the Huahong bid. Do we need to wait another week for this to show up @tokenanalyst ? anywhere else to look?
I really don't know. Probably in the next week biddings but is obvious that they bought something that is going to be use in the fabrication of ICs.
Btw, it's good to hear from this SMIC JingCheng employee also. A lot of what he says just seem realistic. I bet MU employees are having the same conversation about C919 right now. This is a business and it's hard to get the yield with a mostly "made in China" line vs ones using American tools, but that's not a choice SMIC or China can make right now. So the workers need to suck it up and deal with the annoyance of validating a de-americanized production line.

And yes, it's hard for SMIC to do an all China line when things are not mature. The Chinese gov't really needs to step in and just give them money or just continue to have ICRD to keep validating domestic products.
Pretty interesting that SMIC already running a 28nm localized line, that means localization of 28nm is secretly much higher that what is told by some people. I think sometimes is necessary to get out of the comfort zone to get things done, of course like the guy said, would be nice to use all AMAT tools and get high yields with minimal effort but the only way to solve bottlenecks in the supply chain is to start using localize tools, materials and software, solving each bottleneck in the process. I guess one way would be to start with small production runs like Huawei plans to do, solve the bottlenecks issues and then "scale up" or accept the lower yield until bottlenecks problems are solved. The goverment could subsidize the lost of yield until those problems are solved.
 

tokenanalyst

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Are LAM, KLA, and AMAT getting licenses to sell or something? Also it's done through their SE Asia subsidiaries it seems.
Could be that US toolmakers are trying to get around the restrictions by establishing franchises and moving production to SE Asia, removing "US persons" from production, maintenance and even design. The problem would be parts and components but my guess maybe parts-materials producers can do the same or tools makers could avoid using US made parts or components by buying those in Asia and Europe.​
 

theorlonator

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Could be that US toolmakers are trying to get around the restrictions by establishing franchises and moving production to SE Asia, removing "US persons" from production, maintenance and even design. The problem would be parts and components but my guess maybe parts-materials producers can do the same or tools makers could avoid using US made parts or components by buying those in Asia and Europe.​
Also there's three additional straight up American companies on that list. KLA, Inspectrology, and Frontier Semiconductor.

I find this bizarre, maybe Pylan Datel had a point with those licenses being given away to a degree.
 

Maikeru

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Perhaps the licences are granted by US to US companies so long as Japan and NL aren't imposing their own sanctions?
 

tokenanalyst

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Runpeng Semiconductor's 12-inch integrated circuit production line project was officially launched​



According to news from Jiwei.com, on February 10, Runpeng Semiconductor's 12-inch integrated circuit production line project was officially launched.

According to Shanghai Zhennan Project Supervision, the total investment of the first phase of the project is 22 billion yuan, focusing on the simulation of characteristic processes above 40 nanometers. After the project is completed, the products are mainly used in automotive electronics, new energy, industrial control, consumer electronics and other fields. The completion of the project will give full play to the advantages of CR Micro's business model of the entire industry chain, close to and drive the cooperation and connection between the upstream and downstream industries, form an agglomeration effect, and help the development of the manufacturing industry in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area.

It is reported that the project is expected to be put into production by the end of 2024. After full production, it will form an annual production capacity of 480,000 12-inch power chips.

China Resources Microelectronics announced on October 28, 2022 that the main body of the construction project of China Resources Microelectronics Shenzhen's 12-inch integrated circuit production line is Runpeng Semiconductor (Shenzhen) Co., Ltd. Co., Ltd. and Shenzhen local state-owned related legal persons jointly funded and established in Shenzhen.


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tphuang

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HPCStack has create new server mainframe using Loongson's 3C5000 server CPUs. Stacks 4 3C5000 CPUs together to get a PN-L924L CPU with 64 LA464 cores.
面向专用业务提供灵活高效的部署,派能信创可选单路16核方案,适用于存储、网安、负载均衡等场景,装载塔式工作站;

面向高端计算提供更强性能,派能信创可选四路16*4核方案,适用于超算、云计算、AI等场景。
Can choose 16 core CPU for storage, network security and load balancing
or choose 4x64=256 core setup for super computing, cloud computing and AI

Are LAM, KLA, and AMAT getting licenses to sell or something? Also it's done through their SE Asia subsidiaries it seems.
IIRC, they later adjusted the persons clause to allow servicing for less advanced tools, but I could be wrong here. Basically, the original ruling was really broad but they then narrowed its scope.
 
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