Chinese semiconductor industry

ASML CEO: U.S. export restrictions to China will promote China's own technology in the field of high-end chip manufacturing equipment​

Jiweiwang News On January 26, according to the Financial Associated Press, Peter Wennink, CEO of the Dutch lithography giant ASML, said in an interview at the company headquarters in Wildhofen, the Netherlands, that the US-led semiconductor industry targeting China The export control measures will eventually lead China to successfully develop its own technology in the field of high-end chip manufacturing equipment.

"The 'laws of physics' are the same in China as they are here, and the more pressure you put on them, the more likely they will work harder" to build lithography equipment that can rival ASML, he said.

tokenanalyst said:

ASML CEO: U.S. export restrictions to China will promote China's own technology in the field of high-end chip manufacturing equipment​

Jiweiwang News On January 26, according to the Financial Associated Press, Peter Wennink, CEO of the Dutch lithography giant ASML, said in an interview at the company headquarters in Wildhofen, the Netherlands, that the US-led semiconductor industry targeting China The export control measures will eventually lead China to successfully develop its own technology in the field of high-end chip manufacturing equipment.

"The 'laws of physics' are the same in China as they are here, and the more pressure you put on them, the more likely they will work harder" to build lithography equipment that can rival ASML, he said.

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More than ASML, the problem for established companies is that China is huge market with huge potential, once a company get big in China, it will get big globally. With some companies needing a monopolistic position in the market just to exist, will be difficult to them to accept seeing some companies in the Chinese market growing without competition in the same product categories.​

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i remember he said once: give China high-end lithography blueprint... China can't do it... he can smell China's EUV.. now he has lowered his voice.. .

olalavn said:

i remember he said once: give China high-end lithography blueprint... China can't do it... he can smell China's EUV.. now he has lowered his voice.. .

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I really don't want to defend ASML CEO, but regarding that infamous comment, IMO it was just too technical, but instead it has been considered to be disrespectful. I really don't think he disrespects China, actually ASML is trying its best to keep working in China.

Comment was too technical, but....it was true at that time.

ASML machines have hundreds of thousand of parts, with thousands of very high-tech and highly-specialized suppliers. You can have all the blue prints you want, but without a complex network of very niche suppliers you can't build that machine. We are witnessing it with SMEE and in general with Chinese equipment manufacturers, we now realize how many years it takes to build a reliable supplier chain including the suppliers of the suppliers. It is a long and painful multi year effort for China...it is almost impossible for anyone else.

Without this very specialized supply chain, blue prints are just a piece of paper.

For instance (sorry for trivializing the subject, it is just to clarify better my point), on a blue-print could be drawn an optical lens with tolerances of few nanometer, or a special component with super-high purity or special surface finishing. Well, you have the drawing, now do it!

I guess this was the meaning of his comment. But it was took in a political way. OTH a CEO should know better, he is not just an engineer or a technical leader, he is also the company leader and should not fall in this rhetoric traps.

ASML is trying to retain market share because there are strong competing DUV products from Nikon. This is also why they've been resistant to U.S. attempts to expanding the sanctions regime, and why these discussions have expanded to include Japan. ASML wants guarantees that Nikon won't simply fill in the void.

It's all about money.

HighGround said:

ASML is trying to retain market share because there are strong competing DUV products from Nikon. This is also why they've been resistant to U.S. attempts to expanding the sanctions regime, and why these discussions have expanded to include Japan. ASML wants guarantees that Nikon won't simply fill in the void.

It's all about money.

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It's really annoying too because the US is asking for them to lose money for no discernable gain or purpose

Well the purpose is quite clear. Lose hundreds of millions if not billions, to slow down china by 1-5 years. I know people are optimistic about China's progress in lithography tools, but delays and serious setbacks happen all the time.

I think it's safe to say that a successful sanctions regime in this area will slow down China for at least 12-24 months.

HighGround said:

Well the purpose is quite clear. Lose hundreds of millions if not billions, to slow down china by 1-5 years. I know people are optimistic about China's progress in lithography tools, but delays and serious setbacks happen all the time.

I think it's safe to say that a successful sanctions regime in this area will slow down China for at least 12-24 months.

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I don't think that's safe to say at all.

We don't have any details on what the sanctions entail, which is what makes a lot of these discussions really hard. We can see that China is stocking up a lot of ASML scanners. We can see China buys a lot from TEL, Nikon and Canon. We also know that these type of sanctions really only affects a couple of fabs in China. SMIC's SN1 and SN2 fab, YMTC and CXMT + HLMC fab 6. In YMTC/CXMT case, they are already slowed down due to US sanctions, so additional sanctions really don't make things that much worse. HLMC still hasn't really started 14nm production.

Which brings us back to SMIC. All the sanctions really just affect their SMSC JV. How much this really affects them depend on how much tools they have stocked up.

I tend to think if this gets dragged on and SMIC stocks up enough tools, there really wouldn't be much additional effect. Of course, if the Dutch & Japanese drops after service support, that's a whole different ball game. Because then, Chinese fabs will have to replace all those tools also and that would be annoying. but in that case, I don't see how China could purchase another tool from these countries.

I do think the Chinese gov't is still too timid here. At minimum, they should put tariffs on semi tools from any country that sanctions them. That would be a reasonable retaliation and they can use that money to support domestic industry.

HighGround said:

ASML is trying to retain market share because there are strong competing DUV products from Nikon. This is also why they've been resistant to U.S. attempts to expanding the sanctions regime, and why these discussions have expanded to include Japan. ASML wants guarantees that Nikon won't simply fill in the void.

It's all about money.

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Nikon is not competitive with ASML for leading edge logic due to their lack of dual stage. The second stage is used for simultaneously measuring the 3D topography of the wafer so that the source has optimal depth of focus with regard to the specific wafer under exposure. Nikon requires an external module for that.

From what I remember it's mostly Intel buying new Nikon tools. It is also why SMEE is being held to such a high bar, as the dual wafer stage is very difficult to master.

HighGround said:

ASML is trying to retain market share because there are strong competing DUV products from Nikon. This is also why they've been resistant to U.S. attempts to expanding the sanctions regime, and why these discussions have expanded to include Japan. ASML wants guarantees that Nikon won't simply fill in the void.

It's all about money.

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they are only afraid of Canon... not Nikon... Canon has nanoimprint technology...

olalavn said:

they are only afraid of Canon... not Nikon... Canon has nanoimprint technology...

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I always thought that nanoimprint is not so good since the master has to be of similar dimensions as the final pattern and thus limited because the master mask has to be made using very expensive e- beam lithography and must be periodically replaced due to mechanical wear.