Chinese semiconductor industry

european_guy said:

If they really use the 65nm resolution with immersion to reach the 28nm node critical layers, it means that the immersion system should have 0.93NA. Correct?

So the 2 optic systems for Arf should be 0.75NA/0.85NA, what havoc calls 90nm resolution, and the 0.93NA that is supposed to correspond to the dry 65nm resolution system (38/45nm resolution with immersion).

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I've been trying to reconcile Havok's numbers for dry and immersion DUV layouts and some of the numbers aren't reconciling. Havok mentioned that the immersion DUV machine will be using the 65nm dry DUV machine as a template and that machine was said to use 0.85NA optics. As far as I'm aware, all immersion DUV platforms use 1.35NA, which means without immersion, it would be 0.93NA, not 0.85NA. I also distinctly remember reading of a Beta immersion prototype in Chengdu using 1.35NA, but that website has since been deleted. So, even if we chalk up the numbers discrepancy to the k1 process factors being a black box, the figures still don't match. I have suspicion that this might actually be some sort of deception to throw certain OSINT types off track.

havok：中国首台28nm光刻设备制造商上海微电子的光刻设备工艺制程对环境空气有极高的要求，而美埃科技则为其所需的机台内ISO Class 1级洁净环境提供产品并验收合格。如今美埃科技已拥有9项自主研发的发明专利，在申请发明专利38项。
havok：关键词 —— 机台内
havok：厂房也有他们的产品，国产供应商之一。机台内主要用于微环境控制，如wafer handler内的微环境

havok：China's first 28nm lithography equipment manufacturer SMEE' lithography equipment process has extremely high requirements on ambient air, and MayAir Technology provides products for the required ISO Class 1 clean environment in the machine and accepts them qualified. Today, MayAir Technology has 9 self-developed invention patents and is applying for 38 invention patents.
havok：Key word —— inside the machine
havok：Fab also has their products，one of the domestic suppliers. The machine is mainly used for micro-environment control, such as the micro-environment in the wafer handler

As expected, the vassals did not last long. China should consider Europe, Japan & South Korea as merely extensions of the US and strive to completely shed dependence on any of them, eventually fully closing the Chinese market for the companies from there - including but not limited to semiconductors.

xypher said:

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As expected, the vassals did not last long. China should consider Europe, Japan & South Korea as merely extensions of the US and strive to completely shed dependence on any of them, eventually fully closing the Chinese market for the companies from there.

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Bloomberg has been playing word games with the whole thing. They said one thing just to be contradicted by official statements.

xypher said:

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As expected, the vassals did not last long. China should consider Europe, Japan & South Korea as merely extensions of the US and strive to completely shed dependence on any of them, eventually fully closing the Chinese market for the companies from there - including but not limited to semiconductors.

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This is getting kind of annoying. Bloomberg has been posting none stop speculations about Dutch & Japanese buckling under pressure for weeks now only to be contradicted by official statements later from the Dutch that they are still working through their process and talking to the partners before deciding what type of sanctions to impose. We have the Dutch statement from just a couple of days ago, why are people still posting Bloomberg articles on this when they've proven to be entirely unreliable?

We just had this article from Reuters yesterday that the Dutch are looking for guidance from European Commission.

The people who work at Bloomberg are such scummy stenographers.

xypher said:

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As expected, the vassals did not last long. China should consider Europe, Japan & South Korea as merely extensions of the US and strive to completely shed dependence on any of them, eventually fully closing the Chinese market for the companies from there - including but not limited to semiconductors.

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Disinformation.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/breaking-world-news-iii-no-discussion.7090/page-5777#post-938108

tphuang said:

This is getting kind of annoying. Bloomberg has been posting none stop speculations about Dutch & Japanese buckling under pressure for weeks now only to be contradicted by official statements later from the Dutch that they are still working through their process and talking to the partners before deciding what type of sanctions to impose. We have the Dutch statement from just a couple of days ago, why are people still posting Bloomberg articles on this when they've proven to be entirely unreliable?

We just had this article from Reuters yesterday that the Dutch are looking for guidance from European Commission.

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Click to expand...

To remind everyone the quality of Bloomberg's report when it comes to China - unrelated to semiconductors but still worth sharing.



December 13 -
China is delaying a closely watched economic policy meeting that was due to start this week, after Covid infections surged in Beijing, according to people familiar with the matter.

December 14 -
Chinese leaders are planning to proceed with a closely watched economic policy meeting in Beijing this week, opting not to postpone the gathering as Covid infections surge across the capital, according to people familiar with the matter.

I wonder who those "people familiar with the matter" are? Beijing taxi drivers?

tphuang said:

This is getting kind of annoying. Bloomberg has been posting none stop speculations about Dutch & Japanese buckling under pressure for weeks now only to be contradicted by official statements later from the Dutch that they are still working through their process and talking to the partners before deciding what type of sanctions to impose. We have the Dutch statement from just a couple of days ago, why are people still posting Bloomberg articles on this when they've proven to be entirely unreliable?

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Reading your comments, made me realize something. Actually a couple of things.

One is South Korea is never mentioned. It is always the Dutch or Japanese agreeing to these bans.

Two is that in a roundabout way, this kind of exposes what the tech war has become.

When the Dutch government comes out and says that they are not interested in further bans, and Dutch industry are opposed to such anti-China bans, and that the Dutch PM the leader is in Washington inside the White House with Biden, and no such thing happened (otherwise the Americans would boast about it), that means nothing happened.

To say otherwise that they are going to ban IC from China, is just like saying they banned Huawei in Europe.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/funny-stuff-thread-to-loosen-your-day.3096/page-399

In this tech war over IC, it clearly not a head to head or toe to toe knock 'em out, bare knuckles kind of fight.

One side it is about the tech, and development. The other side, it is all about bans and disinformation.

Who is going to win?