Chinese semiconductor industry

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daifo

Captain
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Re-compiling apps doesn't take a lot of time. When you run ubuntu, you can use apt-get command and select from a long list of apps to install. If Loongson had a good product and gets used by important ministries, Chinese gov't can just encourage any software supplier to also generate binaries for LoongArch whenever they are putting in new releases.

RISC-V is still not developed enough to take over HPC or desktop market yet. Until then, Hygon has full control over x86 license and instruction set. Same with Phytium with ARMS.

I think one can make machine level calls in C/C++. So niche apps or internal apps (especially engineering/scientific) can be using those for optimization. Though generally a significant portion of generic apps may be able to be "just recompile"
 

olalavn

Senior Member
Registered Member
China should retaliate by banning Apple and Boeing and GM and Ford from the Chinese market. If the Americans want to play dirty with sanctions, then Chinese should fire back. Let's see who has more to lose.
Apple will also come out of China in 5 or 6 years... they will be like Samsung... but the volume of Iphone users in China is very large... however China has to switch to another system like Harmony OS.. I am sure that in the future, domestic companies will replace 80% of US and EU products in terms of high-tech equipment.
 

KYli

Brigadier
What he is saying is that US has China by the balls via consumer CPU chips and Android OS, hence the entire reason for this thread. Stoping the flow of current x86/arm into Chinese manufactures pretty much cripples those companies since a huge portion of those companies rely on products with x86/arm for revenue. Huawei is a diffrent beast as telcom gear and services for carriers was always their core competency and consumer goods were a side project that just happen to exploded.

Western customers rely on apps that rely on GMS like google maps not to mention all the validated western apps in the play store, hence sales of huawei phones pretty much cease in europe after the android ban. Not many sane people would want to login to their bank or netflix via an app downloaded at apkpure, even if it did not rely on GMS. The "New Red Scare" will prevent Chinese OS penetration in the "west" but I think it will have good opportunity in the rest of the world.
First, he claims that these companies and their businesses in China would collapse which is completely false. If the US tried to sanctioned all of these companies, then China would ban both x86 and arm. Most of these companies would switch to x86 and arm knock offs or other substitutes in China. That's why these companies businesses in China won't collapse.

The sales of Huawei's phones only collapsed after its access to high end chips were banned. GMS bans crippled Huawei but Huawei was still selling tens of millions phones each year in the West. China didn't use GMS and Russia is forced to get around GMS. Many countries are having problem with GMS. You think if a complete bans on Chinese phones wouldn't cause a meltdown within Android.

I think you overthink the leverages that the US has on China. Without China, many countries would have smartphones shortages for at least a few years. US has played so many cards that its leverages have become less effective and lethal by the day. US can use piecemeal tactics but trying to blanket ban China would cost the US and the world much much more than it would cost China.
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
Do you even know what you are talking about? Chinese mobile phone companies don't rely upon Android OS within China. Outside of China, if all Chinese companies move to new system, Android OS would be toasted.

Did Huawei collapse after the US sanctions? So you are basically just making an emotional comment due to your worship of the West.
Yall realize that Android is open source right? The US can sanction all they want, but the worst they can do is prevent Xiaomi, Oppo, etc. from accessing the GMS.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
China needs to use more its anti-monopoly authorities to cut these US companies down. They are way too passive about it. These companies continue abusing their position all the time. And they hide behind US government authorities. China should not just let them do as they please.
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
Open source software is not sanction proof. Red Hat Linux left Russia in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine leaving Russians dependent on it in the lurch.

This is why China set up its own open source software foundation the Open Atom Foundation.

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It is actually very much sanction proof. The code is accessible to everyone, how is the US going to sanction that?
Also Redhat is owned by IBM, who is an american company. They have to comply with US sanctions.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Red Hat is an American company as well. It was one already before it was bought by IBM. It was always one.
Anyway, the only problem is technical support. Since you can just get Rocky Linux or Alma Linux which are the exact shame thing as Red Hat Enterprise Linux except it does not have Red Hat logos in it regardless of what Red Hat thinks.
The Russian government has support for companies selling software which are registered in Russia. So you will find out that there are independent teams in Russia supporting just about every relevant piece of open source software you can think of.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
China needs to use more its anti-monopoly authorities to cut these US companies down. They are way too passive about it. These companies continue abusing their position all the time. And they hide behind US government authorities. China should not just let them do as they please.
Yes, that is one option they have.

China doesn't have to "ban" Apple or other US companies to retaliate. Let's say Apple makes $40 billion a year by operating in China compared to what it would make if it didn't operate in China. China then fines Apple $10 billion. Apple has the choice to either pull out of China, or pay the fine. What is it going to choose? If it pays the fine, then it still makes $30 billion a year more than it would if it pulled out. Everything is about calibration.

Here is a recent
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on the Chinese semiconductor industry. Some key takeaways:
- Huawei's domestic ecosystem is spending about $55 billion in investment total to build a domestic supply chain. That is comparable to the TSMC + Samsung spends on new plants in the US.
- SMIC has "non-A" production lines devoid of US equipment that can churn out chips at a 40nm node level. However, these "non-A" lines still rely on Dutch and Japanese help.
- The top Chinese chipmaking equipment suppliers saw their revenue increase by 121% from 2019 to 2021, outpacing their Western peers. However, the article doesn't mention by how much they outpaced them, and there is no mention of China's lithography suppliers in the article.
- The Biden administration is using civil-military fusion as justification for the sanctions, however, the fact that most military applications use lower level nodes wasn't mentioned in the article.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
I think one can make machine level calls in C/C++. So niche apps or internal apps (especially engineering/scientific) can be using those for optimization. Though generally a significant portion of generic apps may be able to be "just recompile"
Recompiling to different instruction sets is a more workable solution today than it was a decade ago because code has become more abstracted and processors have become powerful enough to handle the inherent inefficiencies. But it can still be a time consuming project. That said, these are things that can be mitigated at the OS level. This is essentially what Apple did when they transitioned from x86 to ARM.
 
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