Let him keep embarrassing himself, the thread could use some levity.
Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
- Start date
- Status
NAURA/AMEC/Piotech they also sell products directly for production, they are key suppliers of some foundries, no bidding at all AND they also participate in biddings, all depends on the project and who is paying for it. The only reason that you hear about biddings is because have become a "tool" for some Chinese websites and Chinese analysts to bypass foundries secrecy to have a measure of the localization of China semiconductor industry, which by the way could be much higher o lower depending on how suicidal this foundries are.
Personally I think If public money is involved I think foreign companies shouldn't be allow to participate in the bidding process, only Chinese companies should be allowed, if something can't be found in China, the foundry should ask for a permit, explaining why they need to import the equipment.
The choice of allowing bids is up to the purchaser, in this case the Fabs themselves. If SMIC likes their existing vendors and just submits additional purchase orders with them, then there are no bids. There is nothing being hidden. If we don't see SMEE mentioned in any bids, its more that there were no bids to begin with than the fact that they need to be sheltered.
Also, if NAURA/AMEC/Piotech are consistently winning bids that should be a sign that they have competitive products and can produce them in decent volumes with a reasonable delivery time. That is a significant milestone. The fact that SMEE has not been mentioned in any bids should be a sign that they haven't reached that level. After all, if you are SMIC why would you waste time and open bids from SMEE if you know their stuff isn't ready. And likewise SMEE is wasting its time trying to bid for procurement if knows it falls short of what the purchaser expects.
Bottom line is there is no requirement to conduct bidding. So if SMEE wants to win bids like NAURA/AMEC/Piotech it needs to step up its game be in the product itself, production output or delivery.
There are Chinese companies who do the similar products to other Chinese companies, like Leadmicro and Naura does ALD equipment, Naura and AMEC etching, Semicore and Hwatsing CMP, Semicore and Wanye Ion Implanters, RTP equipment and so on. So having a fair process is necessary so this companies can compete against each other fairly.
But the bidding process has been "corrupted" and has been used by some people in foundries and foreign monopolies basically to keep the localization of Chinese tools down, probably inadvertently.
I think the corruption scandal in China with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology was about that, why these US companies keep winning orders? when Jinhua was almost killed because of their dependency on this American tools, Someone in the goverment saw that and say "that its, there may be some corruption here", Jinhua alone should have been the straw that broke the camel back.
But the bidding process has been "corrupted" and has been used by some people in foundries and foreign monopolies basically to keep the localization of Chinese tools down, probably inadvertently.
I think the corruption scandal in China with the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology was about that, why these US companies keep winning orders? when Jinhua was almost killed because of their dependency on this American tools, Someone in the goverment saw that and say "that its, there may be some corruption here", Jinhua alone should have been the straw that broke the camel back.
ASML barely participate in the bidding process, because there is no need for then to do so, they are a key supplier to many foundries, that its until China litho industry manage to get their feet together. But Japanese and US companies are not only key suppliers for Chinese foundries (they sell directly) but they do compete in the bidding against smaller Chinese companies for the same products. maybe there is more to the story but something is not squaring up.
That's a really small number of machines that required bidding. Aren't you kind of just making the point for me? That chip makers like SMIC and YMTC don't do bidding when they know they have to buy it from ASML?
Anyhow, time for me to move on.
Some more thoughts on Moore Threads. I'm kind of excited by them since desktop GPU is one area Chinese chip makers have ignored. The fact that they are able to iterate process so quickly is a sign of a team that's run by really great people.
So, this is interesting to think about. The market for gaming GPUs is not just in desktop computers but also cloud infrastructure. Despite what they say, S3000 really isn't what you want to use for AI. Moore Threads' entire lineup is geared toward gaming and entertainment. There is a huge market for that in China and East Asia in general. Now, they just need to also put it on Alibaba and its affiliate portals.
Remember from last week where it signed agreement for cooperating with cloud gaming services
If they can ramp up the production on this thing and support more gaming/functionality, they will be another headache for Nvidia in the Chinese market. After all, cloud gaming is a big market in China and all these cloud service providers are probably looking to get off Nvidia.
I post this again for @tonyget
Shenyang Sypiotech: At present, most domestic fabs have not conducted public bidding for equipment procurement, and the company cannot quantify the domestic market share of thin-film deposition equipment.
Wait what? SMEE has Immersion DUV?
- Status