Chinese semiconductor industry

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Sinnavuuty

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Mostly American bs, but one quote from a YMTC insider

Stockpiling equipment for existing production lines, implying that new production lines don't use stockpiled American equipment?
Washington is paranoid. Just look at the example of the Dutch company ASML's ban on supplying lithography equipment to China. For ASML, the world's largest supplier of such facilities, China accounts for 16% of sales. The US wants to stop China from developing its own chip production. The entire world may suffer from the actions of the Americans, as the factories of Samsung, SK Hynix and other major chip makers are located in China.

The recent news:
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China tech shares sink as U.S. export curbs raise chip sector hurdles

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World’s top chip equipment suppliers halt business with China
 

olalavn

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Washington is paranoid. Just look at the example of the Dutch company ASML's ban on supplying lithography equipment to China. For ASML, the world's largest supplier of such facilities, China accounts for 16% of sales. The US wants to stop China from developing its own chip production. The entire world may suffer from the actions of the Americans, as the factories of Samsung, SK Hynix and other major chip makers are located in China.

The recent news:
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China tech shares sink as U.S. export curbs raise chip sector hurdles

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World’s top chip equipment suppliers halt business with China
that's not problem with China firms FfBFgnEakAAL2zq.pngFfBFYgCaEAIvULr.pngFfBFSIEaYAAborG.png
 

european_guy

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Horizon Robotics to Set Up JV with Volkswagen​


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" CARIAD and Horizon Robotics plan to establish a joint venture in which CARIAD will hold a 60 percent stake. Volkswagen Group will invest approximately EUR 2.4 billion ($2.32 billion)"

CARIAD is Volkswagen's software development company, but they can also do hardware...

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They don't talk about the details of the partnership, in particular they don't say who is responsible for interfacing foundry services to get the chips. Maybe Horizon Robotics can workaround sanctions by using Volkswagen as middle man with TSMC?

This may be an interesting approach for Chinese AI fabless firms: do a JV with some western big guy (better if not US), and get foreign foundry services through them. Very creative ;)
 

ansy1968

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Thanks @ansy1968
Among them which ones that is on par with market leader such as LAM, Applied Material etc?

As I understand, SMEE is not yet on par with ASML.
Well bro, SMIC and other Chinese company will be forced to work with SMEE and it's a good thing as they exchange ideas and consult each other, just look at TSMC and ASML, their partnership is the reason for their dominance. :)
 

Petrolicious88

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Im not so sure about hardware backdoors being a myth. But in network equipment i'm sure the west should be able to counteract potential remote breaches. Im more surprised they tried to sell your average debugging ports and tools as backdoors that shit is quite damaging for the tech industry in general.
Old news, but installing back doors was 100% an excuse to ban Huawei. If they didn’t, Huawei would have easily won 60% global market share. That’s why its banned.

—British GCHQ examined every piece of Huawei equipment before it was allowed into British networks. It was the most thorough inspections applied to any telecom comp.
. Besides firmware vulnerabilities, they never found any evidence of state intrusions or backdoors.

— It set up a special “branch” within GCHQ to specifically examine and monitor Huawei equipment to ensure compliance. All of it was paid for by Huawei btw.

—Huawei is a telecom equipment maker, not a carrier. Customer data is controlled by the carriers like Vodafone, not the equipment makers. —On paper, Huawei could install backdoors, but that’s a pretty stupid way to steal data. It would instantly be detected by the carriers.

Not saying Huawei couldn’t spy on customers with their equipment. All data is likely already monitored in China. But back then, no one found any evidence in equipments sold outside of China.
 

Pkp88

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Here how it will go, I used my special powers and predicted the future so that people can finally stop worrying:
  • US announces new harsh sanctions on Chinese IC industry
  • SDF hyperventilation (current time, we are at this stage)
  • China's response will be hidden from plain sight
  • Chinese foreign spokesman/woman says "we urge the American side to change course or they will have to face the collective will of 1.4 billion Chinese people"
  • Global Times editorial "America shows its unreliability, domestic companies will benefit, US should focus on its own issues and stop worrying about China"
  • Xi-Biden meeting, China's foreign ministry statement, "Biden said he doesnt want a cold war, and he doesn't support Taiwan's independence". "Xi said he supports a win-win cooperative relationship with US and building a community with a shared future for mankind"
  • The entire West, social media, think tankers ridicule China for its weak/no response to US actions
  • SDF continues its hyperventilation
  • 2-3 years later, a report comes out from a random Western organisation, "China is actually winning the tech war and EUV machine is ready"
  • SDF relief, "we won, finally, the end!"
  • Some months later, the US announces new extremely harsh sanctions on an unrelated industry that China still heavily depends on the US.
  • SDF hyperventilation
  • REPEAT from stage 3
In summary if you're looking to get really rich in China the US has banned itself from a market where customers were willing to spending $ billions / yr to buy equipment - so get busy making IC inputs / software / equipment. I can't think of an incentive better than that to just toil away to make this happen...
 

tphuang

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Both Nio and Xpeng use NVidia's DRIVE/ORIN/THOR.

Btw, BYD also use NVidia DRIVE/ORIN/THOR along with Li Auto and SAIC Motor. :oops:
it would be good if you understand what's going on in Chinese NEV industry for a little bit, before posting stuff like this. BYD signed deals with both Nvidia and Horizon Robotics earlier this year for smart cars in 2023. That is an extremely short term setup while they are working on their own chip (which we know that they are doing). Especially with the recent sanctions, Nvidia won't be working with BYD for long.

That's quite different from Zeekr picking Thor after the A100 news came out.

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Mostly American bs, but one quote from a YMTC insider

Stockpiling equipment for existing production lines, implying that new production lines don't use stockpiled American equipment?
Yes. YMTC has the highest percentage of domestic equipment, other than Yandong Semi of course.
My guess is that YMTC probably has enough equipment to open their new plant and ramp up to a certain amount. Losing servicing will hurt in short term, but they probably have enough equipment stocked up and installed already to open up their new fab and expand to a certain point. Beyond that, they need to see if they can find domestic or Japanese replacements.

Horizon Robotics to Set Up JV with Volkswagen​


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" CARIAD and Horizon Robotics plan to establish a joint venture in which CARIAD will hold a 60 percent stake. Volkswagen Group will invest approximately EUR 2.4 billion ($2.32 billion)"

CARIAD is Volkswagen's software development company, but they can also do hardware...

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They don't talk about the details of the partnership, in particular they don't say who is responsible for interfacing foundry services to get the chips. Maybe Horizon Robotics can workaround sanctions by using Volkswagen as middle man with TSMC?

This may be an interesting approach for Chinese AI fabless firms: do a JV with some western big guy (better if not US), and get foreign foundry services through them. Very creative ;)
Auto chips are currently not sanctioned. Beyond that, it's unclear to me how TSMC is complying with the sanctions when it comes to producing chips for Chinese design shops. As of now, Horizon robotics is not affected.

I think the most relevant part of this JV is whether or not the intelligent driving developed here will be put on VW cars in Europe. VW is probably not going to commit in that direction until Horizon shows that it can have the chips built by Chinese fabs. So, SMIC is very important here.
 

Pkp88

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Ufff a lot, you will have to read probably a hundred post in this thread to get half of the picture.
To start kingstone is now Wanye enterprise which the founder of SMIC is one executive. CTEC does ion implanters too, its not in the list.

CTEC founded semicore is not there.

This a list of metrology companies

Semitronix for testing
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Alphasemi for NAND deposition
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Nanoimprint lithography
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Like I said you will have to read hundred of posts here to get half of the picture
Amazing how broad based the effort is in China to create a comprehensive IC supply chain. Before it was a challenge to get fabs to commit and that limited growth - but now there's tens of billion $ / year of reasons to grow like crazy.
 

tokenanalyst

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Huawei gets profitable operations back on track after senior executive’s death, with new heads for enterprise and carrier groups

Highly ranked Huawei executives David Wang Tao and David Li Peng take on role of president, respectively, at firm’s enterprise and carrier businesses
They replace the late Huawei executive Ryan Ding Yun, who previously led both business groups
Chinese telecommunications equipment giant Huawei Technologies Co has appointed new heads for its enterprise and carrier businesses after the sudden death of veteran executive Ryan Ding Yun last week, as the struggling company moves to steer its most profitable operations back on track.
David Wang Tao, an executive director of Huawei’s board and chairman of the firm’s ICT Infrastructure Managing Board, was named president of the company’s enterprise business group, while the former president for Western European operations, David Li Peng, will now serve as president of the firm’s carrier business group.
The new appointments were announced internally, according to a Huawei employee who declined to be named.
Privately-held Huawei, which is headquartered in Shenzhen, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Friday.
The two new appointments reflect Huawei’s heightened focus to bolster its most profitable revenue sources, while working to stay relevant in the global smartphone market, after the early death at age 53 of Ding who served as president of both the enterprise and carrier groups.
Wang, who joined Huawei in 1997, will continue with his other corporate roles, such as on the company’s board and the information and communications technology managing board, while he leads the enterprise group.
The 50-year-old senior executive, who holds a master’s degree from Xi’an Jiaotong University in northwest Shaanxi province, will preside over a major business that is pushing to become entrenched in various domestic industries, including energy, finance, manufacturing, government, internet services, healthcare, retail and intelligent mines. The company’s enterprise business generated 102.4 billion yuan (US$14.26 billion) in sales last year.
Wang, who has worked as the firm’s president of technical sales in Europe as well as managing director for Italy and Switzerland, currently also serves as chairman of Huawei’s investment review board and the firm’s cloud computing operations.
While first-half revenue for Huawei fell 5.9 per cent year on year to 301.6 billion yuan, the pace of decline narrowed from the firm’s 13.9 per cent sales decrease in the first quarter on the back of its enterprise and carrier businesses.
With no end in sight to US restrictions amid simmering tensions between Beijing and Washington, Huawei has been sharpening its focus on diversification since 2020, including co-developing a luxury electric sport-utility vehicle, expanding its cloud services operations, and establishing partnerships for its HarmonyOS mobile platform.
In June, the company formed five new business organizations to further diversify its operations. These so-called legions are each focused on specific industries that include digital finance, energy, machine vision, manufacturing digitalization and public services.


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This people are battle hardened soldiers.
 
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