Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The Plaza Accord is not to blame for Japan's continual dysfunction and decline even today. The Americans long since forgot about Japan. If they wanted to, they could get their act together but they don't.

Maybe, but keep in mind that there was a massive trade war against Japan and reallocation of semiconductor industry to South Korea and Taiwan during the late 80s and 90s. Saying that the U.S. has no hand in Japan's continual dysfunction is not correct.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
People, please stop the Chinese grievance on this thread. This is truly embarrassing to watch and just not relevant to the thread.

Anyways, I've spent more time just examining the consequences of some of the guidelines. Read through Dylan Patel's take on what the ruling means and some others.

Our friend @tinrobert has an article up about this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I appreciate the commentary in there. It made things very clear that Chinese customers do have some time to stock up on their A100/H100 orders. That should help the firms who had been waiting on their already placed orders and give them to move on.

He also pointed out domestic competition like Biren Technology and Moffett AI. Here is the thing, some people (like Dylan Patel) believes that the current ruling will prohibit TSMC from building chips for Biren Technology. I'm not sure exactly about that. I think we will have to wait and see. Regardless, I would expect there to be a small grace period like in the case of Nvidia, where TSMC can fulfill initial batch or large batch of chips as long as it's done in a few months. Even Huawei got time to stock up. Such an arrangement will probably satisfy both US gov't and Chinese industry. This should given Biren enough of a stock to get at least the plugged in and connected with its initial customers, while they work with SMIC for their next chip.

Kunlun 2 and some other lower power AI chips we saw recently don't crack 600 TOPS, so are probably not restricted at all. I think it's prudent for them to do their next generation chips with SMIC.

And reading through this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It seems like the ban does not cover server chips like Yitian-710 or other ones that Alibaba Pintouge has developed. Although, it would seem to me that they should stock up on as many of the advanced chips as they could (like Huawei did) and design their future CPUs with SMIC.

I don't expect SMIC's N+1/N+2 process to have really high yields in the beginning. But due to having a captive market, they can probably charge a lot of money to work with anyone. Or maybe the gov't can subsidize these purchases.

Long term, there is always the fear that America will ban all desktop, auto and smartphone chips. It's important for them to probably ramp up those advanced node fab production.

Another thing they should do is to work at providing replacement options to American tools at Samsung and TSMC. After all, both of them can buy EUVs. So if they have Chinese tools, they could continue to make chips for Chinese design shops.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
People, please stop the Chinese grievance on this thread. This is truly embarrassing to watch and just not relevant to the thread.

Anyways, I've spent more time just examining the consequences of some of the guidelines. Read through Dylan Patel's take on what the ruling means and some others.

Our friend @tinrobert has an article up about this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I appreciate the commentary in there. It made things very clear that Chinese customers do have some time to stock up on their A100/H100 orders. That should help the firms who had been waiting on their already placed orders and give them to move on.

He also pointed out domestic competition like Biren Technology and Moffett AI. Here is the thing, some people (like Dylan Patel) believes that the current ruling will prohibit TSMC from building chips for Biren Technology. I'm not sure exactly about that. I think we will have to wait and see. Regardless, I would expect there to be a small grace period like in the case of Nvidia, where TSMC can fulfill initial batch or large batch of chips as long as it's done in a few months. Even Huawei got time to stock up. Such an arrangement will probably satisfy both US gov't and Chinese industry. This should given Biren enough of a stock to get at least the plugged in and connected with its initial customers, while they work with SMIC for their next chip.

Kunlun 2 and some other lower power AI chips we saw recently don't crack 600 TOPS, so are probably not restricted at all. I think it's prudent for them to do their next generation chips with SMIC.

And reading through this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It seems like the ban does not cover server chips like Yitian-710 or other ones that Alibaba Pintouge has developed. Although, it would seem to me that they should stock up on as many of the advanced chips as they could (like Huawei did) and design their future CPUs with SMIC.

I don't expect SMIC's N+1/N+2 process to have really high yields in the beginning. But due to having a captive market, they can probably charge a lot of money to work with anyone. Or maybe the gov't can subsidize these purchases.

Long term, there is always the fear that America will ban all desktop, auto and smartphone chips. It's important for them to probably ramp up those advanced node fab production.

Another thing they should do is to work at providing replacement options to American tools at Samsung and TSMC. After all, both of them can buy EUVs. So if they have Chinese tools, they could continue to make chips for Chinese design shops.
They are gonna ban auto chips? who do they think makes auto chips? What nodes do they think auto chips are made on?

Desktop and laptop chips? Who does the advanced packaging necessary? The PCB fabrication? What do they think the cost of a computer for them is going to be?
 

theorlonator

Junior Member
Registered Member
People, please stop the Chinese grievance on this thread. This is truly embarrassing to watch and just not relevant to the thread.

Anyways, I've spent more time just examining the consequences of some of the guidelines. Read through Dylan Patel's take on what the ruling means and some others.

Our friend @tinrobert has an article up about this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I appreciate the commentary in there. It made things very clear that Chinese customers do have some time to stock up on their A100/H100 orders. That should help the firms who had been waiting on their already placed orders and give them to move on.

He also pointed out domestic competition like Biren Technology and Moffett AI. Here is the thing, some people (like Dylan Patel) believes that the current ruling will prohibit TSMC from building chips for Biren Technology. I'm not sure exactly about that. I think we will have to wait and see. Regardless, I would expect there to be a small grace period like in the case of Nvidia, where TSMC can fulfill initial batch or large batch of chips as long as it's done in a few months. Even Huawei got time to stock up. Such an arrangement will probably satisfy both US gov't and Chinese industry. This should given Biren enough of a stock to get at least the plugged in and connected with its initial customers, while they work with SMIC for their next chip.

Kunlun 2 and some other lower power AI chips we saw recently don't crack 600 TOPS, so are probably not restricted at all. I think it's prudent for them to do their next generation chips with SMIC.

And reading through this
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

It seems like the ban does not cover server chips like Yitian-710 or other ones that Alibaba Pintouge has developed. Although, it would seem to me that they should stock up on as many of the advanced chips as they could (like Huawei did) and design their future CPUs with SMIC.

I don't expect SMIC's N+1/N+2 process to have really high yields in the beginning. But due to having a captive market, they can probably charge a lot of money to work with anyone. Or maybe the gov't can subsidize these purchases.

Long term, there is always the fear that America will ban all desktop, auto and smartphone chips. It's important for them to probably ramp up those advanced node fab production.

Another thing they should do is to work at providing replacement options to American tools at Samsung and TSMC. After all, both of them can buy EUVs. So if they have Chinese tools, they could continue to make chips for Chinese design shops.
I agree with Chinese toolmakers needing to be more ambitious and selling to TSMC/Samsung. They have EUV, replace the American crap if at all possible.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
The Plaza Accord is not to blame for Japan's continual dysfunction and decline even today. The Americans long since forgot about Japan. If they wanted to, they could get their act together but they don't.
Maybe, but keep in mind that there was a massive trade war against Japan and reallocation of semiconductor industry to South Korea and Taiwan during the late 80s and 90s. Saying that the U.S. has no hand in Japan's continual dysfunction is not correct.
Plaza destroyed Japan’s capital controls which in turn crippled their ability to resolve the debt problems that followed. Without re-adopting capital controls and resetting their entire financial system Japan is unlikely to fix its economy. And Japan can’t do that if they want to pay fealty to the US’s dollar dominance.
 

KYli

Brigadier
The US is against Xi not China.
The US is against China not Xi. The US hates China. Hate China for a fact that it can prosper under CPC without collapsing. Hate the fact that China has proven that it can outperform the Western regimes in both economies and technologies. Hate the fact that China as a yellow man nation can rise and thrive and beaten the White man nation the US and the EU. Hate the fact that China didn't bow to Christianity and the liberal international order. Hate the fact that China can say NO.
Scientific minds do not thrive in authoritarian regimes. One way or another they come into crossroads with the despots
German under Hitler and UK under Monarchy were both authoritarian regimes. Many of the greatest scientific innovations were discovered during their rules. Your statement is as stupid as those MSM propaganda. Nothing is absolute. Too often things and statement were presented as absolute fact but the truth is nothing is ever absolute.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top