please ban him like an idoit
Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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please ban him like an idoit
I was thinking about what China could do in response.
In my opinion semiconductor industry can not be treated as just another industry anymore. Because forces in the play here are not market forces. The industry is being manipulated by a foreign state. So I believe the Chinese gov should heavily involve itself until catch-up is complete (fully self-sufficient within 2 nodes to the state of the art). I think the industry must be "harmonized" and heavily subsidized. I bet there are a lot of companies that are doing redundant stuff, a lot of companies with the knowledge that would solve a problem of another company, a lot of gaps companies are not looking at because of commercial reasons, etc...
-I think China needs an institution that will direct companies and coordinate efforts. Companies and people who participate in the national effort should be prized and supported heavily.
-Appropriate SOEs should be directed to do commercially and/or politically risky development. You can be sure there are fields international Chinese corporations would stay away from because of risks. We all know the Chinese gov uses SOEs and arranged private corporations to trade with Iran, Venezuela, etc. Why not use the same thing here?
-Fundamental research should be supported as well. Chinese Academy of Sciences and Universities should have funds offered.
-The defense industry and CNSA employ Chinese Americans through indirect methods. The same measures should be brought here as well.
-International cooperation should be pursued wherever possible. Joint development projects would also bring diplomatic benefits. As we all know China has experience with this too. Think of the space station story. Europeans, Japanese, Koreans, South East Asians should see an opportunity when they look at China's efforts.
This is as anti-competitive as it gets but guess what, the US efforts are too. We all saw similar stuff working splendidly for many countries.
In my opinion semiconductor industry can not be treated as just another industry anymore. Because forces in the play here are not market forces. The industry is being manipulated by a foreign state. So I believe the Chinese gov should heavily involve itself until catch-up is complete (fully self-sufficient within 2 nodes to the state of the art). I think the industry must be "harmonized" and heavily subsidized. I bet there are a lot of companies that are doing redundant stuff, a lot of companies with the knowledge that would solve a problem of another company, a lot of gaps companies are not looking at because of commercial reasons, etc...
-I think China needs an institution that will direct companies and coordinate efforts. Companies and people who participate in the national effort should be prized and supported heavily.
-Appropriate SOEs should be directed to do commercially and/or politically risky development. You can be sure there are fields international Chinese corporations would stay away from because of risks. We all know the Chinese gov uses SOEs and arranged private corporations to trade with Iran, Venezuela, etc. Why not use the same thing here?
-Fundamental research should be supported as well. Chinese Academy of Sciences and Universities should have funds offered.
-The defense industry and CNSA employ Chinese Americans through indirect methods. The same measures should be brought here as well.
-International cooperation should be pursued wherever possible. Joint development projects would also bring diplomatic benefits. As we all know China has experience with this too. Think of the space station story. Europeans, Japanese, Koreans, South East Asians should see an opportunity when they look at China's efforts.
This is as anti-competitive as it gets but guess what, the US efforts are too. We all saw similar stuff working splendidly for many countries.
Posting those articles is not an instant bannable offense.
I am well aware of the links he has posted in this thread, and I have yet to take action because I do not think it yet warrants it.
China should use their anti-monopoly commission to attack companies like Qualcomm, Micron, and Apple.
It is pretty obvious that when Huawei was sanctioned the US government was doing the bidding of companies like Qualcomm, Apple, and Cisco. Huawei was a competitor to all these companies and this is why they were sanctioned the way they were. And Fujian Jinhua and YMTC were attacked because they were competitors for Micron. I see no reason for China not to punish all these companies. None of them provide products which are essential in any way in the market. China should put steep tariffs or fines on these companies.
It is pretty obvious that when Huawei was sanctioned the US government was doing the bidding of companies like Qualcomm, Apple, and Cisco. Huawei was a competitor to all these companies and this is why they were sanctioned the way they were. And Fujian Jinhua and YMTC were attacked because they were competitors for Micron. I see no reason for China not to punish all these companies. None of them provide products which are essential in any way in the market. China should put steep tariffs or fines on these companies.
I mean can the Chinese domestic companies fulfill domestic industry demand?
Ten years ago he is so confident that China will collapse and the American Kool Aid will triumph cause China is a copier and can't innovate.
Jul 9, 2012 — Technology and information penetration in China will eventually force the Great Firewall of China to crumble and even lead to the political ...
10 years later he is singing a different tune cause the Chinese Milk Tea taste better and healthier and his recipe (recommendation) is a disaster for the US, now he is blaming everyone except himself...lol Such a condescending person, no wonder the US is heading a downward path, people like him masquerading as a patriot is the reason for the US decline.
Sep 8, 2022 — How to turn around America's strategy in response to China's success in tech innovation. Written by Eric Schmidt and Yll Bajraktari for ...
bro not only him BUT the whole Collective West intelligentsia class, I think people from the Academe with ZERO real life experience are driving policy that is unrealistic and they hate successful people cause they are losers the reason they teach cause they can't do squat....lol So influencing powerful people is a way for social mobility and gaining fame.This story is now playing out again, but this time in semiconductors. Except this time, semicon marketshares, whether SME equipment, CPUs, GPUs, NAND, DRAM, etc...which is well above 90%, will be dropping to like 0-5%. These "Arsenal of Democracy" types are literally psychotic nutballs. They've actively destroyed their own industries for no reason other than to satisfy deeply ingrained brainwashing from their parents/grandparents generations. If it wasn't for Eric Schmidt leadership, China wouldn't have its enormous Internet ecosystem. We could even argue that China's semicon industry is as big as it is because of him. China should be thanking its lucky stars for enemies like this.
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I find this a very good article. Guys, allow me to post this and I will keep quiet for a whole week.
proelite
Junior Member
You need to let market forces play the main part domestically. That way you don't end up with a bunch of incompetent companies that can only survive on subsidies and not innovation. So subsidies should only be in the form of tax breaks and the big fund. You even the playing field against foreign competition with tariffs.
Eric Schmidt was the CEO of Google when Google left China in 2010. At that time, Google was being used by foreign NGOs and disaffected locals to plan and undermine China. This is largely how the Tibet and Xinjiang issues were magnified just before the 2008 Olympics. Then in 2010, Google complained about supposed security breaches to justify their departure from China, as if they were innocent victims of China's national security apparatus. Google's market share went from over 40% to around 3.5% today.
This story is now playing out again, but this time in semiconductors. Except this time, semicon marketshares, whether SME equipment, CPUs, GPUs, NAND, DRAM, etc...which is well above 90%, will be dropping to like 0-5%. These "Arsenal of Democracy" types are literally psychotic nutballs. They've actively destroyed their own industries for no reason other than to satisfy deeply ingrained brainwashing from their parents/grandparents generations. If it wasn't for Eric Schmidt leadership, China wouldn't have its enormous Internet ecosystem. We could even argue that China's semicon industry is as big as it is largely because of him. China should be thanking its lucky stars for enemies like this.
Guys, it's important to not turn SDF into a forum of Chinese grievances. If we actually think most of the provisions here won't do much, then there is no reason to turn into a copium thread and complain about all the Western injustices.
I do think the American citizens clause could cause some pains, because a lot of the more senior people in Chinese IC industries are either Americans or green card holders. They will probably have a hard decision to make. Money is good in China, but they might not want to lose the option of going back to America. Chinese gov't need to help these individuals to come up with some workarounds. Other than that, I don't think how American gov't can take away someone's citizenship for working in a foreign company.
I think the Chinese gov't need to think of smart way to do this. From all the discussions here, I think we can agree that the people driving these companies are the biggest assets for a country's IC industry. It's more important than ASML machines or EDA software. Those you can build. Chinese gov't needs to find ways to keep the experienced Americans in its supply chain somehow and to attract more Chinese Americans or Chinese expats or other countries nationals to work for Chinese supply chain. Maybe some of these chip design houses, which are overwhelmingly made up of Nvidia/Qualcomm/AMD veterans, need to move their offices to Singapore or Thailand or HK to not attract more attention to themselves. Maybe Alibaba needs to move their Pintouge subsidiary (and Baidu with Kunlun) to be registered in Malaysia/Singapore. There are ways around these vague laws.
And as a whole, China needs to present itself as the painless/welcoming/cooperating partners for everyone.
The number of US citizens, as seen in another post here, was in the hundreds. Hundreds out of millions of semiconductor industry workers. There is nobody so vital that they can't be replaced if they choose to leave. Changing the company organization and rules for their sake in any way that risks alienating domestic employees is a poor trade.
Semiconductor is not software. It is closer to petrochemical engineering than software with the amount of capital intensive moving parts. There is no oil company that will go out of business for want of 1 employee. Not one.
Maybe some fabless companies are different, but in China fabless is a dime a dozen. In foundries and equipment manufacturing, individuals have as much impact as an individual engineer does at Exxon Mobil.
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