Chinese semiconductor industry

gadgetcool5 said:

Well this is the kind of fanatical paranoia that got the West to the top and keeps it there. I wish Chinese had the same.

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You want the Chinese to act like this guy? Seriously?

tphuang said:

wtf is wrong with these people? You have SMIC who is already able to produce N+1 now and N+2 next year, they are concerned about a startup that might be producing 28 nm in 3 years? This level of panic is almost amusing if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

And somehow, they seem to be unaware that Huawei is also going to produce its own chips.

I bet some of these people in Washington are so obsessed with China that they can never get a good night of sleep.

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Because its Huawei , Sir IF Hisilicon introduce its 14nm 3d chiplet or announce a 7nm 3D chiplet breakthrough what optics will it create and of course the Symbolism, A Chinese tech company dare to challenge the US and NOT only survived but thrive.

tphuang said:

wtf is wrong with these people? You have SMIC who is already able to produce N+1 now and N+2 next year, they are concerned about a startup that might be producing 28 nm in 3 years? This level of panic is almost amusing if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

And somehow, they seem to be unaware that Huawei is also going to produce its own chips.

I bet some of these people in Washington are so obsessed with China that they can never get a good night of sleep.

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The big problem remaining is lithography. Both Nikon and ASML are risks. Every other equipment is going fine. Unfortunately lithography is just a very hard nut to crack, much harder than deposition, etch, clean, metrology, etc due to the complex, heavy and precision mechanical components involved.

It is very easy to devolve out of lithography - see Perkin Elmer being a pioneer of projection lithography and then having it's semiconductor division go out of business. It is very hard to enter. SMEE is doing OK in packaging lithography but front end is hard.

tphuang said:

wtf is wrong with these people? You have SMIC who is already able to produce N+1 now and N+2 next year, they are concerned about a startup that might be producing 28 nm in 3 years? This level of panic is almost amusing if it wasn't so utterly ridiculous.

And somehow, they seem to be unaware that Huawei is also going to produce its own chips.

I bet some of these people in Washington are so obsessed with China that they can never get a good night of sleep.

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Probably because the devil is in the details… or well the details and the opinion of an analyst.

The company intends to develop its own technologies because of the “US hegemony” that forced China to come up with its own alternatives, a PXW employee said in a recruitment video.

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The goal is to make PXW a contract chip-making giant comparable to TSMC or SMIC, China’s biggest producer of chips, another employee said in the video.

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“Over the next three to five years, Huawei should be able to set up manufacturing facilities and start streamlining the whole semi ecosystem,” Qiu wrote. “It is aiming to become a tier one component integrator for the auto industry, leveraging its semi, design and manufacturing capabilities.”

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PXW describes itself as an emerging contract chip manufacturer. Its first plant -- named by local authorities as a strategic construction project -- aims to make chips used in cars, Internet of Things devices and phones, according to the company’s website.

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Also, I guess this does somewhat validate the rumors that Huawei had a semi project in Shenzhen earlier this year. Tho it isn’t a joint venture with SMIC.

KYli said:

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The way they're talking about and tracking down Huawei feels almost like talking about a terrorist organization or drug cartel. The way they keep emphasizing that what the chip company or Chinese chip companies try to produce is at least eight or five generations behind the most cutting-edge ... You get a chance to peek into the deep psyche of these people or the people/organization/government/state they represent. These are very sick or evil people, to say the least.

KYli said:

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Bro an esteem member had given me his permission, I'm honored to share to all of you what he had PM me before regarding PXW. So brother from now on I shall call you Sir as a sign of respect.

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ansy1968 said:
I eagerly awaits and promise that our secret will kept safe.

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I rather you ask question and I tried to answer as opposed to volunteer all the info. : )

bu to start, I’ll just say, in Shenzen, there’s a couple of new investments that are quite bullish. SMIC Shenzen fab is not too advanced, but there’s a new fab that came out of no where called PXW (Peng Xin Wei) my Chinese is not good, but it’s something like 鵬芯微. They want to invest in 14nm/7nm. These guys are actively working with western WFE suppliers to secure equipments.

and part of SMIC’s fab will be renamed PXX (part of or related to 鵬芯）. The Shenzen area semi industry, we are calling the Great Bay Area consortium. The “consortium” will have another big advanced fab there.

I think mostly of these are not in the news yet. You can keep an eye on these.

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ok to share. But please don’t discuss in open forum.

PXW will have tools move in starting 2023 and ramp to the tune of 40K won within 5yrs. Everyone’s biggest question is where they will find the technical capability and IP to support their ambition.

PXX (old SMIC fab) is 100K wpm. This was formerly SMIC F6’s 2nd phase. Due to the source of funding, they are now calling it PXX. SMIC will provide technology. Huawei could be a source of funding, but this is not very clear. This fab will be 28/40nm, so wouldn’t make sense if it’s Huawei money. PXW would make more sense if Huawei is spotting the dough.

Huawei Central Institute had bought scanners and some equipment from my company. But their direct engagement is on research advanced packaging

I think these articles are often written to make the policy makers happy. Yes, it's obvious that Huawei is looking for a 5G phone and it will get it next year. Why wouldn't they? I would say most likely using SMIC's N+1 process. In the next couple of years, Huawei's best hope is SMIC. At this point, SMIC should not longer feel getting sanctioned for working with Huawei. The money they can make from producing chips for Hisilicon is a lot more than losing out on access to certain American machines.

Also, I really wonder where they find these "experts". Does this expert realize that 5G in America doesn't work?

“It would take Huawei so long to build up internally or externally the supply chain it needs to pull this off from that we’ll probably be in the 6G era before this can be done,” said Douglas Fuller, an expert in China’s semiconductor industry.

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Blitzo said:

There is a difference between healthy paranoia and fanatical paranoia.

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That's what normal people think. Which is also why normal people are... average, and not number one. The people running the West do think of Huawei not only as a drug cartel, but even worse than a drug cartel because it bested them at something. It's their job to keep the West (10% of the world population) dominating the rest. It's their job to be fanatical, to be crazed, to go beyond what is normal or reasonable. Think of that what you will. But if you aren't willing to be even more fanatical, even more determined, then you won't beat them.

weig2000 said:

The way they're talking about and tracking down Huawei feels almost like talking about a terrorist organization or drug cartel. The way they keep emphasizing that what the chip company or Chinese chip companies try to produce is at least eight or five generations behind the most cutting-edge ... You get a chance to peek into the deep psyche of these people or the people/organization/government/state they represent. These are very sick or evil people, to say the least.

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I never seen that before, have you, or anyone else?

They made a satellite shot of a manufacturing facility, that has not even begun manufacturing anything yet.

They do not even intend to fab the cutting edge chips there either!

What the fuck, you know?! That's too fucking funny!

Fuck them. That's all I got to say.

Guess the butt hurt has gone straight to the brain.

Haha!

supersnoop said:

My own opinion here, this product must be more mature than meets the eye.
"Testing" RISC-V with such an expensive platform makes very little sense.
It would make more sense to release a RISC-V SBC (single board computer)/barebones config to cut down on the price to get the platform out to as many people as possible. Especially if your target it devs, who don't need the monitor in a laptop.

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Processor is comparable to A73 CPU is from Huawei Kirin 970