Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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The 7 nm chip is known to exist and wasn't advertised, but found by a teardown analysis. So whatever we see is top of the iceberg.
Also the secret FinFET process might merely be US free, not fully domestic. For example it could be using Nikon immersion DUV for front end and SMEE for back end lithography. We don't know, but the factual existence of a sample chip refutes conjecture.
Man, got to give it to them for this round. This is a Chad move.
Basically they utilised Chinese brains, Chinese infrastructure, Chinese money (i am sure they got some subsidies) to develop a cutting edge product which is then banned from selling to Chinese customers but allowed to American companies which are then going to use it for increasing their dominance in this space.
Beautiful.
Of course its still a a dumb decision for the long term but I have to admit that for short term play this stinks quite a bit for China. Anyway, lesson learned for next time I guess
Nvidia could provide some nice internship places
Then the US can continue complain about China stealing IP.
China reached at a certain point, where they can design and produce own high tech hardware.
Its not a total lose, engineers tend to jump ship and bring their knowledge to other local companies.
Yes. When we see something actually happening in real life, the onus is on the individual to change their views.
Not to cling to old ideas or beliefs that have been disproven.
Otherwise you are no better than those Americans who cling desperately to the idea that China cannot change and catch up - when reality says otherwise
Indeed. In the end its about which side is exploiting more the other side.
Contrary to my a bit funny previous post, this remains a net positive for China as it helps it develop its talent. Something akin (i am sure you know this) to the mass movement of Chinese students studying in America in the past.
On the short term the US felt like it got a great bargain, but ask them 30 years later and they will say heck no! So, slow and and steady is the way to go. This ban will come and go but the valuable Chinese talent developed by Nvidia will remain in China and then proceed to help other Chinese companies compete with Nvidia or even start their own hi-tech start-ups
I don't mean to dig on people in this thread. But away from the people actually posting developments a lot of posts read like this: "In response to the development and changes of the situation, adjust the strategic strategy in a timely manner, strengthen the strategic planning for the medium and long term, and firmly grasp the strategic initiative"
From the article, it states that "Nvidia said on Thursday the U.S. government has allowed exports needed to complete the development of its flagship artificial intelligence chip". Therefore it is implying that the development work in China still relies on some kind of US input, otherwise Nvidia wouldn't have to send anything over if it was fully localized. On the surface, it sucks that even if the bulk of the development work is being done in China, from a US export controls perspective it is still relying on some US inputs so therefore it got nailed. With the current situation though even if Nvidia was able to complete design development of the chip in China w/o relying on input from the US, the US could still nail Nvidia by invoking secondary rules on its production at TSMC which use US inputs so it would still fall under export control jurisdiction.
For a US company to develop something in any overseas subsidiary, Chinese or otherwise to be considered a non-us product for export control purposes they would have to be zero US inputs and basically be 100% localized or de-Americanized. So in this example Nvidia's Chinese subsidiary would have to do all the work with either all local inputs or if certain content such as code, software libraries, licenses, etc are required they must come from OUS. But yes, technically there is nothing stopping a US company from developing a product entirely under its Chinese subsidiary that is considered a Chinese product. It just requires replicating the same business operations you have elsewhere in China. It's kind of what ARM did with ARM China, by doing a huge IP transfer to its Chinese subsidiary and basically letting them fork it and run with it. They still required some support from other ARM branches as of a few years ago to my knowledge, but that's the kind of localization efforts you would be looking at.
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