Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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We know the American won't accept a peer China and hell bent to prevent or hinder it, the reason for the uproar of SMIC 7nm chip, they want the Chinese to be 2 generation behind, that logic seems unrealistic since the world leader are practically Chinese...lol.

Now IF Huawei announce a domestic 7nm line and producing their 7nm chip or better a 7nm 3D chiplet, the American will go berserk...lol That will be the day when a Chinese stood up, A Private Chinese Company not only survive BUT embarrass the US gov't and a marketing bonanza for Huawei, there is NO WAY any Western Company will top that...lol
 

ansy1968

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Wow!!!! right on queue a YT video describing what we just discuss, Huawei is really at the forefront of de Americanization of Chinese IC supply chain, we wish them the best, their success is our success! Jia You!!!!

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pbd456

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My issue with these claims is that a company as sanctioned as them should be publicly announcing this to re assure customers that their hardware solution is viable - strange not to see that. In general a lot of claims in this forum but unlike the military threads there’s no visual or print evidence
using your logic, SMIC should have announced they had made 7nm chip 1 year ago.
 

Jianguo

Junior Member
Registered Member
they are the test mouse of domestic companies... chips, Nanflash, domestic screen.. they are the first to use...they are semi-state and private companies...
Where is there proof that Huawei is semi-state other than the US government saying it is state owned? From what I know, the only indications that it has state ownership is China's government supporting its development with tech initiatives and sometimes industry subsidies for some downstream suppliers. This is also extended to most of China's important companies and is a common practice with most industrialized countries.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
Where is there proof that Huawei is semi-state other than the US government saying it is state owned? From what I know, the only indications that it has state ownership is China's government supporting its development with tech initiatives and sometimes industry subsidies for some downstream suppliers. This is also extended to most of China's important companies and is a common practice with most industrialized countries.

I don’t think he is referring to Huawei but other companies Huawei is experimenting their tools or components.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Where is there proof that Huawei is semi-state other than the US government saying it is state owned? From what I know, the only indications that it has state ownership is China's government supporting its development with tech initiatives and sometimes industry subsidies for some downstream suppliers. This is also extended to most of China's important companies and is a common practice with most industrialized countries.
Bro Huawei, from the POV of CCP is a Strategic Company thus it had gov't support, from my understanding of a semi state is where a Company received Special privilege status either thru Gov't Scientific institution technical support, state subsidies and favorable financing. Just like the Chaebols of SK, they're a major contributor to the economy. It had become prominent due to US ban and restrictions.

No one wants to talk about Huawei's state subsidies​

Robert-Clark-125x125.jpg

News Analysis
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1/9/2020
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Nobody, it seems, wants to talk about the huge subsidies the Chinese state has poured into Huawei's business.
The major Chinese vendor has been the beneficiary of as much as US$75 billion in government loans, credit lines, land grants and tax breaks, according to a
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.
By comparison, Cisco received $44.5 million in state benefits in the past 20 years.
The Journal says it gleaned the numbers from public filings. It reports:

  • The largest portion of assistance -- about $46 billion -- comes from loans, credit lines and other support from state lenders, the Journal's review showed. The company saved as much as $25 billion in taxes between 2008 and 2018 due to state incentives to promote the tech sector.

Some years ago I asked
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, then Huawei CMO, about the $30 billion in credit lines made available by state banks. He waved it off by saying it was something the banks were doing over which Huawei had no control.
True enough -- no business would spurn a shower of cash, even from the government.
However, Huawei's $25 billion China Development Bank credit line wasn't a happy accident, but arose out of a deal between Huawei's founder Ren Zhengfei and then-CDB chairman, Chen Yuan, in 2004. (See
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.)
Frank Hochburg, former chairman of the US Ex-Im Bank, observed of Huawei's India growth spurt, where sales had spiked from $50 million to $2.5 billion in a year: "That kind of growth takes more than just good sales and marketing." (See
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.)
Of course, state support for big tech is not unique to China, to which anyone who witnessed
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can attest.
But on these numbers Huawei is playing a whole different game. The company has tried to explain away the assistance as "small" and available to foreign companies as well.
It's wrong on both counts. The credit lines from a state bank enable Huawei to consistently offer financing at below market rates: That's a saving of millions in a major network equipment deal.
Foreign vendors in China might qualify for some R&D tax breaks, but they certainly don't have the China Development Bank at their back when they try to sell in other countries.
The irony here is that Huawei is bearing the brunt of a US campaign to exclude it from 5G because of its alleged complicity in Chinese government cybersecurity activity. There is nothing to show that
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have anything to do with Huawei, yet there is evidence that the Chinese government assistance to Huawei is grossly distorting the 5G equipment market that is deemed to be of vital national security importance -- and somehow this doesn't seem to matter.
The trade war with China, supposedly fought to eliminate China's unfair trade practices, will
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in US sales of beef and soybean. Quite the victory.
Yet the subsidies and grants to Huawei and other tech exporters by the Chinese authorities did not seem to even make it onto the trade war agenda.
So why is no one talking about this?
The timing might be a factor. Not a lot of people would have interrupted their Christmas morning to catch the latest Huawei news in the Journal.
Or maybe because the US has corporate welfare issues of its own it doesn't want to get into.
Or because the campaign against Huawei is being run by military and security agencies, rather than Treasury and Commerce.
It's a mystery. But if Washington wants to revive its flagging campaign against Huawei, it could do a lot worse than zero in on its improper state subsidies.
— Robert Clark, contributing editor, special to
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Jianguo

Junior Member
Registered Member
they are the test mouse of domestic companies... chips, Nanflash, domestic screen.. they are the first to use...they are semi-state and private companies...
I don’t think he is referring to Huawei but other companies Huawei is experimenting their tools or components.
Statements like this need to be countered, whether accidental or not, because this is the narrative used to attack Huawei and anything China related. We know for a fact this statement is not true and can only be supported indirectly with indirect relationships. You can support ANYTHING if there is ANY relationship whatsoever if the reader doesn't care about the context or the logic of that relationship. It's like how Huawei 5G gear is accused of spying on everybody even though the relevant Huawei software code was made public and its gear OK'ed by the national security agencies of the UK and other anti-China countries. Nowadays, you have any China based company with any degree of success being accused of being semi-state owned.
 

Jianguo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bro Huawei, from the POV of CCP is a Strategic Company thus it had gov't support, from my understanding of a semi state is where a Company received Special privilege status either thru Gov't Scientific institution technical support, state subsidies and favorable financing. Just like the Chaebols of SK, they're a major contributor to the economy. It had become prominent due to US ban and restrictions.

No one wants to talk about Huawei's state subsidies​

Robert-Clark-125x125.jpg

News Analysis
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
1/9/2020
comment-icon.gif
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nobody, it seems, wants to talk about the huge subsidies the Chinese state has poured into Huawei's business.
The major Chinese vendor has been the beneficiary of as much as US$75 billion in government loans, credit lines, land grants and tax breaks, according to a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
By comparison, Cisco received $44.5 million in state benefits in the past 20 years.
The Journal says it gleaned the numbers from public filings. It reports:

  • The largest portion of assistance -- about $46 billion -- comes from loans, credit lines and other support from state lenders, the Journal's review showed. The company saved as much as $25 billion in taxes between 2008 and 2018 due to state incentives to promote the tech sector.

Some years ago I asked
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, then Huawei CMO, about the $30 billion in credit lines made available by state banks. He waved it off by saying it was something the banks were doing over which Huawei had no control.
True enough -- no business would spurn a shower of cash, even from the government.
However, Huawei's $25 billion China Development Bank credit line wasn't a happy accident, but arose out of a deal between Huawei's founder Ren Zhengfei and then-CDB chairman, Chen Yuan, in 2004. (See
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.)
Frank Hochburg, former chairman of the US Ex-Im Bank, observed of Huawei's India growth spurt, where sales had spiked from $50 million to $2.5 billion in a year: "That kind of growth takes more than just good sales and marketing." (See
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.)
Of course, state support for big tech is not unique to China, to which anyone who witnessed
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
can attest.
But on these numbers Huawei is playing a whole different game. The company has tried to explain away the assistance as "small" and available to foreign companies as well.
It's wrong on both counts. The credit lines from a state bank enable Huawei to consistently offer financing at below market rates: That's a saving of millions in a major network equipment deal.
Foreign vendors in China might qualify for some R&D tax breaks, but they certainly don't have the China Development Bank at their back when they try to sell in other countries.
The irony here is that Huawei is bearing the brunt of a US campaign to exclude it from 5G because of its alleged complicity in Chinese government cybersecurity activity. There is nothing to show that
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
have anything to do with Huawei, yet there is evidence that the Chinese government assistance to Huawei is grossly distorting the 5G equipment market that is deemed to be of vital national security importance -- and somehow this doesn't seem to matter.
The trade war with China, supposedly fought to eliminate China's unfair trade practices, will
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in US sales of beef and soybean. Quite the victory.
Yet the subsidies and grants to Huawei and other tech exporters by the Chinese authorities did not seem to even make it onto the trade war agenda.
So why is no one talking about this?
The timing might be a factor. Not a lot of people would have interrupted their Christmas morning to catch the latest Huawei news in the Journal.
Or maybe because the US has corporate welfare issues of its own it doesn't want to get into.
Or because the campaign against Huawei is being run by military and security agencies, rather than Treasury and Commerce.
It's a mystery. But if Washington wants to revive its flagging campaign against Huawei, it could do a lot worse than zero in on its improper state subsidies.
— Robert Clark, contributing editor, special to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
There's a difference between the industrial policy of a country supporting its industries and calling the companies in that country semi-state. Japan's MITI and S.Korea's Chaebols could be placed into the same category just as today's American led Chips Alliance. At the end of the day, none of those companies are called semi-state and treated with punitive tariffs, long-arm jurisdiction, etc. The context is important.
 
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