Chinese semiconductor industry

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Weaasel

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I agree the huge difference here is that China, contrary to France and Japan, is not a US satellite state.

The sell of Alstom to General Electric was green lighted by Emmanuel Macron, at the time deputy chief of staff for French President. Many in France think that this favor to Americans helped his future political career. He become Economy Minister shortly thereafter.

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I don't know the details for Japan, but after Toshiba was attacked by US judges, Japan politicians sided with US against Toshiba and Toshiba even apologized (appalling!) to US....for being screwed by US.

The fact that China is independent and has a strategic autonomy creates a lot of troubles to China (as we can see everyday), but gives also some big benefit to Chinese companies, that know that their government will be with them and not against them.

Strategic autonomy is a big thing and should be defended at any cost. It is like freedom but at state level, instead of at individual level. We in Europe lost it 70 years ago.

BTW regarding startegic autonomy, I am honestly impressed by how much ASML and his government are still resisting US pressure. It is really surprising for me.
Japan did not have much leverage at the time because it was highly reliant on the United States for its security, and the world at the time was much more polarized than it is now, regardless of the present troubles of this and recent years. Japan's domestic market alone did not provide the economies of scale, and it did not have a market for its exports of major tech aside from the United States, NATO allies in Europe, and to a lesser extent Korea, Southeast Asian, Latin American, and Middle Eastern countries. China was much less a factor to the global economy at the time... [Boy oh boy, how China has so thoroughly transformed itself from since the 70s and 80s...]

Pride is one of the main things that presently makes Japan not ditch its alliance with the United States for neutrality or indeed even a defacto alliance with China... Somehow, there are those in the LDP who still feel that China is inferior and that human resource wise and organizationally Japan is far better than China, even though many or most lament that the reality is no longer the case.

If I were Japan, I'd hint at that if the Americans were to go on and keep on testing me... But presently, the Americans are not antagonizing Japan, because they do not want Japan to turn on the US.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
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When you say that always remember that Japan has a comprehensive capability in semiconductor and IC chip manufacturing equipment, components, and materials capability with the exception of EUV machines. Every other thing with regards to equipment, components for equipment (such as photomasks, lenses, and power sources), and materials it is able to produce. Companies such as Nikon, Canon, Tokyo Electron, and Gigaphoton can do so.

Japan could produce 14 nm and 7 nm "overnight".
Japan can produce whatever it likes, where is the market though?
China is building its own IC ecosystem with its own supply chain. Koreans are also having a go in domestic IC supply chain development
 

56860

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Japan can produce whatever it likes, where is the market though?
China is building its own IC ecosystem with its own supply chain. Koreans are also having a go in domestic IC supply chain development
No it can't.

US controls as much of the EDA, materials and equipment as Japan does. If not more.

And heavily sanctioned SMIC somehow beat Intel to 7nm (lmfao)

This dude is a Jai Banzai. Ignore him.
 

Weaasel

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Japan can produce whatever it likes, where is the market though?
China is building its own IC ecosystem with its own supply chain. Koreans are also having a go in domestic IC supply chain development
That's the difficult part... Increasing its market share...

No it can't.

US controls as much of the EDA, materials and equipment as Japan does. If not more.

And heavily sanctioned SMIC somehow beat Intel to 7nm (lmfao)

This dude is a Jai Banzai. Ignore him.
If you are calling me a Jai Banzai, then you have obviously not followed the train of my comments. Japan CAN and does produce the equipment, components, and materials that I mentioned... The irony of calling me a Jai Banzai and then mentioning about SMIC beating Intel to 7 nm is that some days ago, I myself wrote positively in some detail about SMIC achievement in doing just that...
 

56860

Senior Member
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That's the difficult part... Increasing its market share...


If you are calling me a Jai Banzai, then you have obviously not followed the train of my comments. Japan CAN and does produce the equipment, components, and materials that I mentioned... Just saying that does not make me a Jai Banzai...
That does not mean Japan is capable of 7nm 'overnight'. US also produces components, equipment, and materials, and a sanctioned to hell SMIC beat Intel to 7nm.
 

Weaasel

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That does not mean Japan is capable of 7nm 'overnight'. US also produces components, equipment, and materials, and a sanctioned to hell SMIC beat Intel to 7nm.
"Overnight", you are going to go into a petty argument over the semantics of a word in quotation marks and then make insulting remarks too?

And again, with regards to SMIC making 7 nm and beating Intel at it, this so called Jai Banzai a few days ago commented positively about that too...

For some of you, just because you dislike a particular country, anything said that is remotely positive about that country and its people will make you launch into insults and tirades on anyone who says anything positive about it, even when factual.
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
"Overnight", you are going to go into a petty argument over the semantics of a word in quotation marks and then make insulting remarks too?

And again, with regards to SMIC making 7 nm and beating Intel at it, this so called Jai Banzai a few days ago commented positively about that too...

For some of you, just because you dislike a particular country, anything said that is remotely positive about that country and its people will make you launch into insults and tirades on anyone who says anything positive about it, even when factual.
How long has Intel been producing chips?

Is Intel at 7nm now with decades of development and R&D, as well as access to the entire western semiconductor supply chain?

Overnight isn't semantics. It's a wild exaggeration on your part.

No, Japan would not make 7nm 'overnight' if it wanted, not even close. This isn't me bashing on anything remotely Japanese. This is common sense.
 
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manatee988

New Member
Registered Member
I agree with Weaasel. Japan definitely has significant latent semiconductor capabilities much like how it has latent nuclear capabilities. Obviously they can't spin up that industry overnight but they definitely can become a big player if their hand was forced. I think currently they are actually in slightly better shape than China in terms of advanced semiconductor know-how due to the US sanctions but China definitely has much better semiconductor manufacturing base. I don't think acknowledging this is "Jai" anything and attacking someone for pointing these things out shows an embarrassing level of insecurity.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
How long has Intel been producing chips?

Is Intel at 7nm now with decades of development and R&D, as well as access to the entire western semiconductor supply chain?

Overnight isn't semantics. It's a wild exaggeration on your part.

No, Japan would not make 7nm 'overnight' if it wanted, not even close. This isn't me bashing on anything remotely Japanese. This is common sense. Try again, Jai Banzai.
Again, could have said all that without the Jai Banzai quip, and you have not even acknowledged my positive comments with regards to SMIC producing 7 nm chips. Your character is showing through. This is the last time that I will respond to you on this subject matter...

Note to Admins on the insults from this fellow...
 

Sincho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Dengyeye is right. Japan will not be producing 7 nm anytime soon. If they can "overnight", they will be now constructing at least a 7 nm fab plant to compete with TSMC and Samsung. In truth, at the present, their most advanced plant is a 40nm fab operated by Renesas near Tokyo. Japan is actually very far behind as far as chip fabrication goes.

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