Chinese semiconductor industry

european_guy said:

Nand and memory definitely need sub 28nm immersion lithography. Maybe do not (immediately) need EUV, but this is a different thing.

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SMEE will produce 20 duv this year according to plan.

european_guy said:

This is a free gift to AMEC


US is acting as if they still have monopoly on equipment. Of course AMAT and Lam research are still leaders in their market....but no more in a monopoly situation. Only the banning of ASML would be effective nowadays.

Although also ASML has been and is subject to huge US pressure, the simple fact that it is not a US company, nevertheless makes the things much more difficult for US administration, and has proven a good thing for China.

This is only speculation on my side, but my opinon is that if ASML would have been an american company, now things would have been much much worse.

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So essentially is the view that banning AMAT, LAM doesn't actually restrict YTMC as the real core component for beyond 128nm are lithography devices?

huemens said:

My be they were waiting for the chips act to pass. Now they can give a piece of that to these equipment companies while they cut down on sale to China. Now they are just straight up banning without even saying National Security or anything. This is a golden opportunity for Chinese equipment makers to ramp up production.

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@huemens Bro again China is not the Target, its TSMC and Samsung! the dithering is for show, you know how the American operates, they will kill you if given the opportunity. Most of those National security folks don't know anything about Semiconductors, for them being on top is what matters and IF they can't have it then harvest it.

Now TSMC and Samsung are not fools, for them IF China can mass produce its DUVL and introduce its EUVL they will jump ship immediately, cause IF there is an alternative, they will have a choice and its liberating, free from being blackmailed.

Pkp88 said:

So essentially is the view that banning AMAT, LAM doesn't actually restrict YTMC as the real core component for beyond 128nm are lithography devices?

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You need machine with special characteristics. But still easier than EUV.

PopularScience said:

SMEE will produce 20 duv this year according to plan.

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@PopularScience bro count me as a skeptic BUT want to be proven wrong, 20 maybe for next year, 8 to 12 is more believable this year.

ansy1968 said:

@PopularScience bro count me as a skeptic BUT want to be proven wrong, 20 maybe for next year, 8 to 12 is more believable this year.

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Both dry and immersion.

european_guy said:

This is a free gift to AMEC


US is acting as if they still have monopoly on equipment. Of course AMAT and Lam research are still leaders in their market....but no more in a monopoly situation. Only the banning of ASML would be effective nowadays.

Although also ASML has been and is subject to huge US pressure, the simple fact that it is not a US company, nevertheless makes the things much more difficult for US administration, and has proven a good thing for China.

This is only speculation on my side, but my opinon is that if ASML would have been an american company, now things would have been much much worse.

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@european_guy and here bro I applauded ASML, they push back and push back HARD! I think the status quo holds and the ban on EUVL sales is still on until 2026 when the Chinese introduce their own.

The total investment is about 8.15 billion, and the construction of the first photonic chip pilot line in China is announced

latenlazy said:

It’s a whole lot more than that. ArFi requires a whole set of fluidics control systems too, and you need to pair the solid state optics with the immersion liquid’s optical properties so you’re not even using the same optical design. These are not compatible machines.

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The whole optics set need to be redesigned to accommodate a immersion hood and immersion fluid fittings.

Pkp88 said:

So essentially is the view that banning AMAT, LAM doesn't actually restrict YTMC as the real core component for beyond 128nm are lithography devices?

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I am not able to analyze the impact in detail. Of course there will be an impact, but maybe not a deadly one, i.e. something that stops YMTC from expanding capacity. According to some sources AMEC is already developing a high aspect ratio etcher and ladder etcher for 128-layer 3D NAND:


I don't know from where @tinrobert (the above seekingalpha article author) got this info, I am not able to find alternative sources.

I can see from AMEC site that since many years they have an etcher designed for high-aspect ratio that has been mass produced for 16nm. I guess they are iterating on that.


There is very few information on the state of art of AMEC in YMTC fabs, we only know that YMTC uses AMEC etchers since many years already, but there is very few info on the details. Of course nobody feels the need to advertise too much the technical details of this collaboration, for obvious reasons.