Chinese semiconductor industry

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xricxo

Just Hatched
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I'm like 99% certain he was hoping America sanctions Chinese companies harder by spreading the news.
The way I see it, harder sanctions on SMIC don't matter that much anymore. They entered risk production on a 7 nm equivalent node in 2021.

Now, Chinese companies are exporting tools the US and SK, which means that the price/performance ratio of Chinese tools is good enough to win bids at leading foundries abroad. So any additional export restrictions on US (or Japanese) tool makers will just reduce their income, while increasing it for Chinese companies. This is compounded by the recently introduced subsidies to induce companies to set up fabs in the US.

That's how an utter industrial policy own-goal looks like, right there.
 

pbd456

Junior Member
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The way I see it, harder sanctions on SMIC don't matter that much anymore. They entered risk production on a 7 nm equivalent node in 2021.

Now, Chinese companies are exporting tools the US and SK, which means that the price/performance ratio of Chinese tools is good enough to win bids at leading foundries abroad. So any additional export restrictions on US (or Japanese) tool makers will just reduce their income, while increasing it for Chinese companies. This is compounded by the recently introduced subsidies to induce companies to set up fabs in the US.

That's how an utter industrial policy own-goal looks like, right there.
With the trend, south Korea and Japan won't be earning trade surplus with china due to china can now make many of the previously imported semiconductor and semiconductor materials.

The first world is sacred because their products will be less competitive over time (first losing export to china) and then losing export to other countries because china exports the same products. They will suffer a permanent lower standard of living, this is why they will continue to pressure china. If you listen carefully, they now call china an economic threat
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
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With the trend, south Korea and Japan won't be earning trade surplus with china due to china can now make many of the previously imported semiconductor and semiconductor materials.

The first world is sacred because their products will be less competitive over time (first losing export to china) and then losing export to other countries because china exports the same products. They will suffer a permanent lower standard of living, this is why they will continue to pressure china. If you listen carefully, they now call china an economic threat
@pbd456 Bro the reason why ASML didn't buckle under pressure, they will continue to sell their advance DUVL and when China introduced their EUVL they will sell theirs. America want to harvest Samsung and TSMC tech, it had nothing to do with the Chinese cause Intel and other American tech company want to sell massively in China. And tell TSMC and Samsung who the author of the Bills are...lol It's an example of American exceptionalism, when you can't beat them, Harvest them.
 

ansy1968

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Yup, perfect timing with the CHIP ACT, we're save...lol The moral lesson, Intel is too big to fail....lol

On a side note, maybe they have the reason to halt their FAB expansion in the US, IF the US gov't insist, the numbers don't match up and may demand the whole subsidies instead of sharing with others.

INTEL SEES PC VENDORS REDUCING INVENTORY, SLASHES PC MARKET OUTLOOK​

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JULY 29, 2022, 01:06 PM EDT​

“Our Q2 PC unit volumes suggest we are shipping below consumption as some of our largest customers are reducing inventory levels at a rate not seen in the last decade,” said Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger.

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Citing a “sudden and rapid decline in economic activity,”
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Thursday told analysts that the chip giant is seeing its PC vendor partners reduce inventory levels at a rate not seen in the last decade and as a result is lowering its PC market outlook.

“Our Q2 PC unit volumes suggest we are shipping below consumption as some of our largest customers are reducing inventory levels at a rate not seen in the last decade,” Gelsinger told analysts after Intel’s Client Computing Group reported a 25 percent decline in sales to $7.7 billion for its second fiscal quarter ended July 2 compared with $10.3 billion in the year ago quarter.

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Intel now expects PC TAM (Total Addressable Market) to “decline roughly 10 percent in calendar year 2022 characterized by broadening consumer weakness and relative strength in enterprise and higher end SKUs,” said Gelsinger.

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Intel Chief Financial Officer David Zinsner, for his part, cited a “softening” PC macroeconomic environment and “inflationary pressures.”

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Zinsner said Intel expects to take restructuring charges in the current quarter. Furthermore, he expects “macroeconomic conditions to continue to soften with the potential for a recessionary scenario to materialize.”

Intel is also seeing “economic headwinds” impacting the data center business and as a result is now lowering server (TAM) to reflect “more modest” growth,” said Gelsinger. “Increasing economic concerns are leading to a reduction in second half demand,” he said.

The server market adjustment came after Intel reported a 16 percent decline in sales for its data center and AI group to $4.6 billion compared with $5.5 billion in the year ago quarter.

Intel expects to grow “slower than the overall data center market,” said Gelsinger. “It’s not a fact we like but the forecast we see,” he said. “We have a singular focus to regain performance and TCO .(total cost of ownership) leadership across all workloads and use cases from enterprise to cloud.”

Overall, Intel reported a $454 million loss for the quarter on a 22 percent decline in sales to $15.3 billion. In the year ago quarter, Intel reported earnings of $5.0 billion on sales of $19.6 billion. Intel shares were down 10 percent on Friday to $35.53 in the wake of the disappointing results.

“This quarter’s results were below the standards we have set for the company and our shareholders,” said Gelsinger in a prepared statement. “We must and will do better. The sudden and rapid decline in economic activity was the largest driver, but the shortfall also reflects our own execution issues.”

As it looks to the second half, Intel is “planning for volatility as the world adjusts to the end of a two plus year pandemic and the unprecedented stimulus governments used to fight it,” said Gelsinger.

Mike Turicchi, vice president at Gainesville,Va.-based NCS technologies, said he fears the tech industry is only at the start of a downturn.

“I fear this trend will continue and will most certainly have a negative impact on the industry, causing customers to reconsider purchases,” he told CRN. “We are hearing rumblings about upcoming price increases from many of our technology partners.”

Gelsinger also pointed to the continued supply chain challenges that have hampered Intel. “Across the economy, supply chain issues have both limited the ability to meet demand in some areas and driven inventory well above normal levels in others,” he said.

Bob Venero, CEO of Fort Lauderdale, Fla.-based Microsoft partner Future Tech Enterprise, No. 95 on the CRN 2022 SP500, said customers are waiting up to four months for PC and laptop shipments because of supply chain challenges and constraints.

“The commercial PC market is booming,” he said. “The growth is there. We are seeing tremendous increases in the PC and laptop requirements from our customers. What is impacting the fulfillment of those needs is lack of supply. We need Intel and the component manufacturers to boost up demand and come up with alternative solutions so we can start shipping based on the current demand that we have.”

The problem is customers are “kicking the PC and laptop demand down the road because we can not fulfill in a timely manner,” said Venero. “That is forcing us to forecast further out. We are forecasting and ordering six months in advance for our customers at this point.”

Ron Martin, senior business development manager at IT distribution behemoth TD Synnex, said while the chip shortage has been an issue for some specific components, the Clearwater, Florida, and Fremont, California-headquartered company is still able to deliver a lot of products.

“There might be a little bit longer lead time,” he told CRN. “But it‘s but it’s not getting completely deferred. I‘ll have something that was not available for six months, but then, boom, all of a sudden, it’s available.”

The very largest IT users tie up a lot of the parts and components, and Intel, as well as others are, he said, are working to get what they need. “If a project gets canceled, it frees up to 100,000 of this or 10,000 of that,” he said.

Gelsinger, for his part, said Intel is prepared to manage through the volatile market conditions. “We are prepared to manage through a slowdown typical of the normal cycles the semiconductor industry has experienced over the last 50 years,” he said.

As a result of the “high level of uncertainty” going forward, Zinsner said the company has lowered its full year sales and earnings estimates and is moving to a “range based approach to revenue guidance” for the rest of the year. “There’s also a risk for continued COVID related impacts on demand and the supply chain to continue throughout the year,” said Zinsner.

Intel now expects full year adjusted earnings of $2.30 per share on revenue of $65 to $68 billion. That compares with a forecast from three months ago of $3.60 in earnings and $76 billion in sales.

Intel is also planning on lowering “core expenses” in 2022 and is continuing a slowdown in hiring. Last month, in an internal memo sent to employees, Intel said it is “pausing all hiring and placing all job requisitions on hold” in the personal computer chip division.

All that said, Gelsinger said he does not see “expense discipline” impacting the company’s strategy to “process performance parity” with competitors in 2024 and “unquestioned leadership in 2025. “This goal is our true North star,”
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
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Well I agree with you that there is no rational reason for the crackdown. But recently China has been cracking down on any sector of the economy that starts to become successful with little or no reason at all. Regardless of monopolies, and including those that are important for national security and survival, etc. Which is why China's GDP growth has now slowed down massively. By the way, monopolies like google, microsoft and apple all operate in China too yet because they are US tech, China has not cracked down on them. They only crackdown on successful Chinese companies, not US ones. The same is true for the US govt. Which is why I say both governments are in a pact to suppress Chinese success in tech.
This thread is about semiconductors not china economics so this will be my last response.

Google doesn't even operate in China.

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Microsoft only makes 2% of their revenue in China, so apart from their operating system, which by the way let tell you a secret between you and me. Almost everyone pirate it, they don't have to much of a business in China.


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Apple they had their as beat by almost every other brands in China from a few years ago.

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They are crackdown on business practices no just sector sectors. And there are reasons. We may disagree on some but there are logical reasons. The last thing they want is an expensive 2001 like meltdown in the tech, monopolies deterring startups from growing, the cost of education being a burden to parents ( and more if inflation get out of control like in the rest of the world), A even more chaotic property market deterring people from home ownership (the high home ownership in China really help them to soften the effects of the lockdowns), people losing live savings and committing suicide due crypto scams, children growing into hikikomories because they grow up in a computer screen and so on. They will refine their approach to tackle this issues with time but there are reasons. Also stop reading to much into western media without a critical thinking.​

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We may disagree with the approach to some of this problems but there are reasons.
Which is why China's GDP growth has now slowed down massively
Which one? China has to major slowdowns one, from 2008-2019 (12%-6%) due the stabilization of the 2008 stimulus and the recent one due the covid lock downs. NONE OF THOSE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

The R&D is funded by the State Council, which is stacked with comrades from the Communist Youth League, the opposing faction of Xi Jinping. Similarly the MIIT guy was from the State Council before. So this is Xi putting the hammer down against Li Keqiang's faction. The more that faction loses power (which may be complete after Li steps down) the more Xi will have a free hand to ban Chinese tech.
Bullshit. The funding for the project 02 and most semiconductor projects in China are branches from the Made in China 2025 project, what you saying is ridiculous. from my own finding reading the reports of the companies there has been an increase oversight on the fundings to at least try to avoid waste and more bidding. Shutdown their own project? Come on man.
 

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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
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fyi, schizophrenia is a treatable disease.
Not in his case. If we could time-travel him 1000 years into the future, they'd still have nothing for him.
His recent articles was doomposting about SMIC being ahead of Intel when it's not the case.
Actually, he's broken clock right about that. SMIC is demonstrably ahead of Intel.
 

tokenanalyst

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Wanye Enterprise: Its thin film deposition equipment successfully won the bid for the Shanghai Jita characteristic process project​


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Jiwei.com reported on July 29, according to the announcement of the winning bid for Shanghai Jita Semiconductor Equipment, Jiaxin Caneng Company, a subsidiary of Wanye Enterprise, successfully won the bid for 7 thin film deposition equipment for the construction project of Shanghai Jita Semiconductor Co., Ltd.’s characteristic process production line, including 6 One high-density plasma film deposition equipment (HDP-CVD) and one silicon dioxide plasma film deposition equipment (PECVD).

According to reports, in July, Jiaxin Hongyang's rapid thermal processing equipment (RTP) and Jiaxin Jianeng's thin film deposition equipment successfully entered the Shanghai Jita special process production line in July.

In the first half of this year, Wanye Enterprise and its holding subsidiaries accumulated a total of more than 750 million new integrated circuit equipment orders, and the income of the integrated circuit special equipment manufacturing business increased by about 150% compared with the same period of the previous year, mainly benefiting from the acceleration of China's local integrated circuit fabs. Factors such as the expansion of production, the successful delivery of its low-energy large-beam ion and high-energy implanters to customers, and new equipment purchase orders signed by many customers.

At this stage, Wanye is accelerating its deployment in the field of integrated circuit front-end equipment. The company's holding subsidiary, Keystone, has won batch orders for multiple 12-inch integrated circuit equipment from important customers in the first quarter of 2022, including low-energy large-beam ion implanters and low-energy large-beam ultra-low temperature ion implanters. In late April this year, Keystone entered the first batch of whitelists for resumption of work and production by the Shanghai Municipal Commission of Economy and Information Technology, and successfully delivered the first batch of multiple sets of large-beam ion implanters in batch orders to customers, which will be delivered stably on schedule.

So far in 2021, 4 different types of ion implanter equipment developed by Keystone have been successfully verified and accepted at the client, including low-energy large-beam ion implanter, low-energy large-beam heavy metal ion implanter, and low-energy large-beam ultra-low temperature ion implanter. Implanters and high-energy ion implanters. At present, the company has established a good cooperative relationship with core component suppliers, has a stable supplier system, and has a leading position in the domestic ion implantation industry.

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FriedButter

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The rest of the article is irrelevant but the comment on factory expansion is interesting. Plans for 31 fabs to be built by 2024 is moving forward. Don’t know if it includes non domestic companies to.

"China is moving forward with plans to build 31 new chip factories by 2024" with "the world's fastest expansion of chip capacity”
 

Overbom

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The rest of the article is irrelevant but the comment on factory expansion is interesting. Plans for 31 fabs to be built by 2024 is moving forward. Don’t know if it includes non domestic companies to.
That article is also specifically targeted to a certain member here who claimed that China wanted to destroy its IC industry lol
Questioning anti-corruption campaign in China's chip industry is deliberately muddying the waters: Global Times editorial
The first thing to point out is that a few corrupt officials cannot possibly represent the vast majority of the backbone of this industry who remain discreet and hard-working.
 
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