Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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a stage accuracy of 2.5nm is not the same as capability to achieve 2.5nm mixed machine overlay (MMO). I looked up old scanner catalogue, and the litho tool with ~2.5nm stage accuracy have corresponding MMO performance of ~5nm. This would suggest SSA800/10 would be expected to operate closer to Nikon NSR-620D/ASML NXT1950 instead of NSR-630D/NXT1980.
The 2.5nm information date back from 2019, we really don't know their current capabilities, since they have been working hard with Tsinghua University to develop a high precision, high acceleration maglev wafer stage that can be used for EUV lithography that would be more precise that what the currently have. Although we know that part of MMO precision come from correcting the aberrations and other issues on the optics system,which means not necessary a 2.5 wafer overlay will correspond to a 5nm MMO overlay it could be much less depending in this corrections and i know that is an area they have been working hard since 2020, so we don't what system they have develop since but i can speculate from some hardware pics and patents that i had seen.
The Commerce Department, which oversees export policy, is actively discussing the possibility of banning exports of chipmaking tools to those Chinese factories that make advanced semiconductors at the 14 nanometer node and smaller, the people said, to stymie China's efforts at making more state-of-the-art chips. In the meantime, the agency would allow those same tools to be sent to plants owned by the same firms but which make less advanced semiconductors, to safeguard the supply of commodity chips as the world recovers from a chip shortage.
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yes is easier for them to ban KLA, Applied Materials and Lam from selling but they still have to convince the Dutch government that previously oppose stopping the selling DUVi equipment.
 

ansy1968

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The Commerce Department, which oversees export policy, is actively discussing the possibility of banning exports of chipmaking tools to those Chinese factories that make advanced semiconductors at the 14 nanometer node and smaller, the people said, to stymie China's efforts at making more state-of-the-art chips. In the meantime, the agency would allow those same tools to be sent to plants owned by the same firms but which make less advanced semiconductors, to safeguard the supply of commodity chips as the world recovers from a chip shortage.
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The neocons had no reverse gear....lol Its to late ,14nm is domestic doable, again the US is really helping the domestic semiconductors equipment supplier prosper. What's ASML choices then, 1) leave the Chinese market 2)disregard the sanction proposal 3)set up a Chinese subsidiary or 4)buy components from Chinese suppliers and had a JV.
 

ansy1968

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Yup the trust are gone and the Chinese will seek an alternative.

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RISC-X? Top Chinese scientist mulls alternative to the RISC-V architecture​

Is RISC-X next? Bao Yungang, a professor and scientist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the secretary-general of the China RISC-V Alliance, has suggested RISC-V related standard specifications can be bifurcated into a new RISC-X standard independently developed in China for the “Belt and Road” countries.
The world has become more complicated with new sanctions imposed nearly every week, and those include not only primary sanctions but also secondary sanctions where non-sanctioned countries engaged in business or partnership with sanctioned countries may be penalized too. This has been around for years, for example, I had to sign a document in 2019 saying I would not be doing business with North Korea or Iran, or go bear riding with Putin during my summer holidays (or something to that effect) when I opened a business bank account in Hong Kong or it would be terminated without notice.
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But everything has gotten more worse in 2022, and China is notably worried about semiconductors supplies, especially processors. While Intel, AMD, and even Arm-based processors would be obvious targets of sanctions, you’d think RISC-V open architecture and the ecosystem around it may be safe from sanctions. But
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, which
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as a top Chinese scientist, mentions the following at a Q&A session on Zhihu social network (SMCP did not provide the link to the Q&A, IMHO a frequent failure of larger news organizations):
In extreme cases, RISC-V related standard specifications can be bifurcated into RISC-X, and China is fully capable of advancing the evolution of the RISC-X standard independently and building an ecosystem together with Belt and Road countries.
He further explains that while RISC-X products may not be able to enter the United States and other Western countries, in a way similar to Huawei products, but products based on the new open-source architecture could still be to the 6.6 billion people in developing countries.
It does not look like any serious work has been done on RISC-X, and I understand it was just offered as a possibility. So I’d still view RISC-X as unlikely at this stage for a range of reasons. The RISC-V Alliance is based in Switzerland, which historically has been neutral (although this has changed a bit recently), and a significant number of its
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are Chinese companies such as Alibaba Cloud and Huawei. Then the core RISC-V architecture and a large part of the ecosystem are open-source, so it would be close to impossible to prevent China or other countries from accessing the technology, barring governments deciding to make open-source chip design illegal…
The problem could be in customizations as a lot of RISC-V development is done in the dark in that respect. For instance, SiFive started by offering open-source RISC-V cores, but their customers did not really care about open-source designs, and now most of the SiFive cores are closed source, while Imagination Technologies boasted about its “innovative and patent protected technologies” when introducing its
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.
Of course, the CPU architecture is only a small part of getting the chip to market, and the US already bans China from acquiring equipment for the more advanced nodes, but now it seems they are also trying to prevent China from manufacturing chips with older nodes by
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. Anyway, let’s hope cooler heads will prevail, and people can focus on advancing technology instead.
jean-luc aufranc cnxsoft

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Jean-Luc started CNX Software in 2010 as a part-time endeavor, before quitting his job as a software engineering manager, and starting to write daily news, and reviews full time later in 2011.
 

european_guy

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Yup the trust are gone and the Chinese will seek an alternative.

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BY
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RISC-X? Top Chinese scientist mulls alternative to the RISC-V architecture​

Is RISC-X next? Bao Yungang, a professor and scientist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the secretary-general of the China RISC-V Alliance, has suggested RISC-V related standard specifications can be bifurcated into a new RISC-X standard independently developed in China for the “Belt and Road” countries.
The world has become more complicated with new sanctions imposed nearly every week, and those include not only primary sanctions but also secondary sanctions where non-sanctioned countries engaged in business or partnership with sanctioned countries may be penalized too. This has been around for years, for example, I had to sign a document in 2019 saying I would not be doing business with North Korea or Iran, or go bear riding with Putin during my summer holidays (or something to that effect) when I opened a business bank account in Hong Kong or it would be terminated without notice.
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But everything has gotten more worse in 2022, and China is notably worried about semiconductors supplies, especially processors. While Intel, AMD, and even Arm-based processors would be obvious targets of sanctions, you’d think RISC-V open architecture and the ecosystem around it may be safe from sanctions. But
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, which
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as a top Chinese scientist, mentions the following at a Q&A session on Zhihu social network (SMCP did not provide the link to the Q&A, IMHO a frequent failure of larger news organizations):

He further explains that while RISC-X products may not be able to enter the United States and other Western countries, in a way similar to Huawei products, but products based on the new open-source architecture could still be to the 6.6 billion people in developing countries.
It does not look like any serious work has been done on RISC-X, and I understand it was just offered as a possibility. So I’d still view RISC-X as unlikely at this stage for a range of reasons. The RISC-V Alliance is based in Switzerland, which historically has been neutral (although this has changed a bit recently), and a significant number of its
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
are Chinese companies such as Alibaba Cloud and Huawei. Then the core RISC-V architecture and a large part of the ecosystem are open-source, so it would be close to impossible to prevent China or other countries from accessing the technology, barring governments deciding to make open-source chip design illegal…
The problem could be in customizations as a lot of RISC-V development is done in the dark in that respect. For instance, SiFive started by offering open-source RISC-V cores, but their customers did not really care about open-source designs, and now most of the SiFive cores are closed source, while Imagination Technologies boasted about its “innovative and patent protected technologies” when introducing its
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.
Of course, the CPU architecture is only a small part of getting the chip to market, and the US already bans China from acquiring equipment for the more advanced nodes, but now it seems they are also trying to prevent China from manufacturing chips with older nodes by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Anyway, let’s hope cooler heads will prevail, and people can focus on advancing technology instead.
jean-luc aufranc cnxsoft

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Jean-Luc started CNX Software in 2010 as a part-time endeavor, before quitting his job as a software engineering manager, and starting to write daily news, and reviews full time later in 2011.

It seems there is an update in the article

"[Update July 9, 2022: The title has been updated, as Bao Yungang only answered a hypothetical question, and the screenshot below from a slack (maybe internal) shows SCMP may have misunderstood his meaning, and China would have no need to fork RISC-V based on
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."

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BTW I was a little surprised by this RISC-X initiative because it would have meant, to give RISC-V control back to US (RISC-V was invented and initially developed in US, we have to give credit where credit is due). Fortunately the article was just a click bait.
 
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