Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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It make sense to me. For self preservation, TSMC should expand as quickly as possible because :

SCENARIO 1 : With the dominant technology and capacity, the US will probably not allow TSMC to fall under China's control. Hence the US may strongly intervene in any attempt by China to reunify with Taiwan.

SCENARIO 2 : If China reunites with Taiwan, TSMC's capacity and capability will be a prize catch. China will likely handle TSMC with kid gloves, and possibly with Taiwan too.

TSMC is just playing both sides of the coin.
@Rettam Stacf bro one more, they know how to leverage their advantage especially with ASML.

TSMC saying to them "Whose number 1" :cool:

ASML answer "We're not Worthy":eek:
 

ansy1968

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Kurt Campbell China Pivot policy is done without any historical input , the way they devised The twin pillar of US security strategy in East Asia is an example. Especially regarding SK, cause China hold a lot of leverage aside from NK, hatred against the Japanese , you have to include Huawei as well....lol

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latenlazy

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@Weaasel that's what bothering me, why TSMC isn't the first customer, their partnership is what makes them number one in their respective fields. I'm thinking that TSMC using the current EUVL had crack the tech for both 3nm and 2nm so why spend an enormous amount (double the price) for a new EUVL? I understand Intel motive as they try to play catch up to sign up for this machine BUT they don't have the product for that machine to produce, they don't even produce a 7nm chips what more a 3nm and 2nm chip? I'm no expert BUT a novice like me can see that TSMC hesitation may force ASML to lower their new HIGH NA EUVL price cause they need TSMC more than Intel to make this machine successful.
The high NA EUV scanner will be able to do 3nm and 2nm more quickly, with fewer steps, and thus more cheaply at scale than the current EUV scanner. This will be especially necessary for expanding potential demand for those nodes. It will also enable sub 1 nm nodes in theory. So even if the equipment cost is more expensive the overall production cost is cheaper.
 

ansy1968

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The high NA EUV scanner will be able to do 3nm and 2nm more quickly, with fewer steps, and thus more cheaply at scale than the current EUV scanner. This will be especially necessary for expanding potential demand for those nodes. It will also enable sub 1 nm nodes in theory. So even if the equipment cost is more expensive the overall production cost is cheaper.
@latenlazy Thanks Sir for the explanation, I'm just surprised that TSMC wasn't the first and I'm not belittling Intel, for me technical wise TSMC will be able to exploit this machine to its fullest and that will be a great advert for ASML.

And sir since we are on topic, can SSMB do the same, In theory can it perform the same function or even better, from @coolieno99 post I see its merit especially compare to the current EUVL and regular maintenance of its optics?
 
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latenlazy

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@latenlazy Thanks Sir for the explanation, I'm just surprised that TSMC wasn't the first and I'm not belittling Intel, for me technical wise TSMC will be able to exploit this machine to its fullest and that will be a great advert for ASML.

And sir since we are on topic, can SSMB do the same, In theory can it perform the same function or even better, from @coolieno99 post I see its merit especially compare to the current EUVL and regular maintenance of its optics?
High NA is an optical configuration to get finer beam line width and thus better scanning resolution. However, the increase in optical elements for high NA also translates to greater photon loss, so a more powerful light source is needed to compensate. How that compares for or affects the economics of a potential SSMB based lithography system is an open question, since from the sounds of it to make SSMB economically viable would require a totally different organization of FAB production infrastructure from how the industry currently works.
 

hvpc

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High NA is an optical configuration to get finer beam line width and thus better scanning resolution. However, the increase in optical elements for high NA also translates to greater photon loss, so a more powerful light source is needed to compensate. How that compares for or affects the economics of a potential SSMB based lithography system is an open question, since from the sounds of it to make SSMB economically viable would require a totally different organization of FAB production infrastructure from how the industry currently works.
The higher image contrast of HiNA projection system compare to the current EUVL will provide more photon not less. This is one selling point of he HiNA system in addition to better resolution capability.

If ASML could really successfully deliver the HiNA EUVL then it would be even more difficult for SSMB to compete. The gap for us to catch up actually widens.
 

latenlazy

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The higher image contrast of HiNA projection system compare to the current EUVL will provide more photon not less. This is one selling point of he HiNA system in addition to better resolution capability.

If ASML could really successfully deliver the HiNA EUVL then it would be even more difficult for SSMB to compete. The gap for us to catch up actually widens.
With an EUV optical system photon loss from scattering is a major factor in the optical design (due to how high energy the photons are). Higher NA optical elements will introduce proportionally more scattering, and thus more photon loss. In optical systems at much longer wavelengths scattering loss is far more negligible. With EUV you need to consider photonic factors, not just traditional optical factors. There’s a reason why EUV systems require much more powerful light sources but still end up with lower scanning speeds. That said I’m not arguing that ASML’s high NA machine will deliver fewer photons to the scanning table than lower NA machines. I’m just pointing out that they have had to increase the power of the light source considerably to make it worthwhile.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

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The higher image contrast of HiNA projection system compare to the current EUVL will provide more photon not less. This is one selling point of he HiNA system in addition to better resolution capability.

If ASML could really successfully deliver the HiNA EUVL then it would be even more difficult for SSMB to compete. The gap for us to catch up actually widens.
From what I've read, high NA is optics based improvement, not source based improvement. So it is completely independent of the EUV source, SSMB with equivalent optics would have equivalent improvement.
 
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