Doesn't companies like SMEE provide an alternative to ASML at least at lower resolution? Are these not being used for mass production / production of consumer products?
Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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@mrandolph,
Are you aware of any other country designed and manufactured purely with their local tech?
China is not doing that yet. But technically China is closer to having a complete domestic tech than any country in the world as China is the only one working towards that end. So, we should consider China as the leader in that regard.
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SMEE is mostly selling backend, analog and display lithography systems. It is closer to Japanese lithography companies like Canon or even Nikon than ASML.
They do have an ArF dry etcher but not an immersion system for sale (in testing) or EUV system at all.
Today, no. I am just curious what sort of chip manufactoring capability China would have in a scenario similar to what Russia is in now.@mrandolph,
Are you aware of any other country designed and manufactured purely with their local tech?
China is not doing that yet. But technically China is closer to having a complete domestic tech than any country in the world as China is the only one working towards that end. So, we should consider China as the leader in that regard.
In particular there already were examples of chips that were build using an unsanctionable supply chain.
for I been reading the complexity and cost of packaging will increase very high over the coming years, as applications become increasingly complex like AI, lithography for that area will not only have to meet very high resolution but also very wide area and overlays accuracy will have to become better, that same will be for deposition and etching those will become increasingly complex. If you increase complexity you will have to reduce heat and reducing heat means reducing power consumption, means making things smaller man.
From @Oldschool Yup! @weig2000 previous post about Dual Approach Strategy strategy is bearing fruits, SMIC Beijing is all local, while SMIC Shanghai is ASML, the question mark is whether SMIC Shanghai FAB expansion and Shenzhen will also use domestic? BUT being an enthusiast , I'm betting Local?
Today at 2:18 AMNew
Hi,
The things to pay attention is the SMIC massive expansion in Shenzhen, Beijing, and Shanghai for 28nm this year.
Last year, news came out that SMIC have received the 11 AMSL DUVs for $1.2B. Each one would cost $100M, that indicates its the most advanced version NXT2050, capable of 7nm, but hvpc indicares that ASML wouldn't deliver so many advanced ones in such short time. So , that leads to so what conflcted views. Maybe it could something for your research.
SMIC-Beijing , i believe had indicated it wants Non-US equipments for its 28nm JV. That means No Applied Material, Lam research, KLA-Tencor. Raimondo , US secretary of commerce indicated US can put SMIC out of business if it aids Russia on chip production. SMIC-Beijing Fab will have Non -US equipments so it would none of US business if it have Russian business.
I don't know about SMIC-Shenzhen, SMIC-shanghai whether they insist on Non-US equipments.
SMIC-Beijing probably has that SMEE 28nm DUV for verification. Naura, CETC , AMEC should supply all other equipments for its 28nm expansion. Nevertheless, ASML DUV should be non of US business anyway.
Oldschool
Junior Member
Registered MemberToday at 2:18 AMNew
Hi,
The things to pay attention is the SMIC massive expansion in Shenzhen, Beijing, and Shanghai for 28nm this year.
Last year, news came out that SMIC have received the 11 AMSL DUVs for $1.2B. Each one would cost $100M, that indicates its the most advanced version NXT2050, capable of 7nm, but hvpc indicares that ASML wouldn't deliver so many advanced ones in such short time. So , that leads to so what conflcted views. Maybe it could something for your research.
SMIC-Beijing , i believe had indicated it wants Non-US equipments for its 28nm JV. That means No Applied Material, Lam research, KLA-Tencor. Raimondo , US secretary of commerce indicated US can put SMIC out of business if it aids Russia on chip production. SMIC-Beijing Fab will have Non -US equipments so it would none of US business if it have Russian business.
I don't know about SMIC-Shenzhen, SMIC-shanghai whether they insist on Non-US equipments.
SMIC-Beijing probably has that SMEE 28nm DUV for verification. Naura, CETC , AMEC should supply all other equipments for its 28nm expansion. Nevertheless, ASML DUV should be non of US business anyway.
I asked around, what I uncovered was that there aren't even that many NXT2050 in the country yet.From @Oldschool Yup! @weig2000 previous post about Dual Approach Strategy strategy is bearing fruits, SMIC Beijing is all local, while SMIC Shanghai is ASML, the question mark is whether SMIC Shanghai FAB expansion and Shenzhen will also use domestic? BUT being an enthusiast , I'm betting Local?
Oldschool
Junior Member
Registered Member
Today at 2:18 AMNew
Hi,
The things to pay attention is the SMIC massive expansion in Shenzhen, Beijing, and Shanghai for 28nm this year.
Last year, news came out that SMIC have received the 11 AMSL DUVs for $1.2B. Each one would cost $100M, that indicates its the most advanced version NXT2050, capable of 7nm, but hvpc indicares that ASML wouldn't deliver so many advanced ones in such short time. So , that leads to so what conflcted views. Maybe it could something for your research.
So the entire SMIC Beijing JV will be on non-US equipments. This means, there will be official announcements about this, right? Or there will be reports on this since not easy to hide shipments of so many SMEE tools from the public or media or employees.
I have my doubts an entire giga fab would ramp with new unqualified domestic systems. That's just not how things are done in semi. Not common for big abrupt changes like this, changes are implemented and transitioned slowly.
I think it's more likely the fab will have started to take in a few domestic systems, but not 100% domestic. I will eagerly wait for news soon to be proven wrong.
I think hiding shipments from employees and the public is ez pz actually, even if you don't really try. My facility ships stuff out all the time, I have no idea what it is because our shipping department takes care of it. Things come in crates. The public has no idea what this stuff is either.
That leaves the media. How many climb wire fence to get a story? Nobody.
Unfortunately I'd also tend to agree here.
SMIC Beijing JV will start production in 2024, so till now no equipment should be already in. The FAB will be a modern 28nm plant with expected capacity of 100,000 12-inch wafers per month.
It is a huge capacity to totally rely on localized equipment. It would be a huge (and somewhat crazy) bet going 100% local as first attempt on such a big fab.
There is also a geopolitical consideration too. Once you go 100% local on an advanced FAB, you cross a red line from US point of view, they will start to really freak out and you don't know what the reaction will be. So better to do such a step with your shoulders fully covered already.
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