Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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I do agree light source is extremely difficult.
but don't see any news on EUVL prototype yet. whatever we need to wait what China 5th plenum I think it will conclude tomorrow's and table early next year to get clear picture what they want to plan on China ahead.
do understand what's meaning prototype?? if they not assemble it will not become prototype.
Another one for the I/O nerds, another RISC-V development kit between UC Berkeley and a Shenzhen startup.
As a bonus, RISC-V vs. ARM vs. Intel X86. Why is this RISC architecture is disruptive?
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As a bonus, RISC-V vs. ARM vs. Intel X86. Why is this RISC architecture is disruptive?
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manqiangrexue
Brigadier
My suggestion is basically that, since the first Chinese EUVs are unlikely to be an export item (both because the first edition is unlikely to be better than ASML's and because they are unlikely to produce more than the domestic demand), there shouldn't be a legal avenue for foreign litigators to even get the evidence of patent infringement.
Your suggestion is that to preserve "business trust" in China, we should blatantly declare patent infringement, then go to court for years and pay fines??? I don't understand this logic at all. How does this preserve or save anything?
And regarding business confidence in China, basically every foreign firm knows that if they want to get into the Chinese market, they're playing with fire and risk having their tech siphoned to a Chinese rival that can eventually displace them. But because of China's market, the allure is irresistible nonetheless. World business confidence in China? China is the country that took the Land Rover and made the Land Wind for goodness sake! I wouldn't worry about patent infringement on a domestic only EUV machine at all.
The thing is if they hiding patent infringements if get caught outsider can accuse "China stealing". how many company involve in this project it will get huge retaliation not only from US maybe include EU. worst case is sanction financially it will cripples their access to financial market. If openly patent infringement its only company to company disputes. Same like Samsung and Apple just do open and shamelessly claim own technology, lets court decide.
China need confidence is more than ever. They want to opening up financial market need confidence. If we saw all what government do when US put sanction on Huawei? do nothing until today no unreliable entity coming out yet. What they do when US sell arm to Taiwan? one of the company sanction Boeing defense unit. Its xxxx businesses unit, China doesn't have ball to sanction all Boeing group. US can banned Huawei Group, the only dangerous they talking is 5G unit, but all group got sanction. Boeing sell weapon to Taiwan only defense unit get sanction. from this event we can see China seeking stability.
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manqiangrexue
Brigadier
What does it mean to "openly patent infringement?" When no one accuses you of patent infringement because no one has seen the inside of your machine, you accuse yourself? You don't even need to hide anything; just don't announce that you infringed on other people's patents. No one has the right to come demand you open up your machine which you don't intend to ever sell them.
Bo, imitating the account names of formerly banned members can't hide your speech pattern. Moulderfox didn't type with degenerate English, you know. Nor will debating against yourself via other accounts.
This paragraph is nonsense and has nothing to do with business confidence. This is irrelevant babble about the details of a trade and tech war that China is clearly winning but those with low cognitive function complain about since China doesn't seem as aggressive.
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FriedRiceNSpice
Captain
Well to be fair, even if China doesn't infringe on any patents and come up with its own indigenous solution, they will be accused of stealing by certain countries nevertheless.
The “working prototypes” had much weaker light sources and less effective exposure. Production viable models were achieved because they had to continue iterating on the light source and optics, which require refining the physics behind the engineering.
Most patents aren’t that difficult to work around from an engineering perspective. Once a basic principle is understood for how to do something there is usually a few different ways to implement the concept.
China’s been violating IP for four decades now...it’s not like this one extra instance in the heat of a tech war would change China’s reputation at this rate.
You only need patents if you plan to export EUVL abroad. Last I heard, China needs EUVL for domestic consumption, it's not going to export EUVL tools abroad, so patent doesn't matter.
China is attempt at vertical integration of semiconductor supply chain INSIDE China, it's not trying to help TSMC or Samsung leapfrog it by providing it's competitors with advanced tools (where patents matter)
You know the EUV laser source is the most difficulty part? Developing a powerful EUV laser is the CORE of an EUV. The other major part is refraction of light using mirrors, which China has already developed as well (see prior posts in the thread).
A half-part of impatience, and half-part of stupid in everyone of your replies.
US banned TSMC/ASML from supplying leading nodes to SMIC, and China is support to curry favors with US and fix it's image with US gov't? Get real. This is a tech trade war, where US unilaterally lied about SMIC to smear China's reputation. And now you are trying to play the good guy after the US fired the first shot? Get real.
Patents only matter if you EXPORT the EUVL tools abroad. China doesn't need to export EUVL tools, it needs it to make chips at home. If you can't get this, you are really thick in the brain.
What is this verbal diarrhea? China was attacked by US in a tech trade war, and now China must play nice to curry favors to the bully US?
GET REAL MAN.
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