Chinese semiconductor industry

Orthan said:

It seems to me that you have run out of arguments and want to bail out of the discussion. If so, i understand.



Its easy to argue in this way. Saying something and not backing it up with sources, and then tell the other to go search for it. Perhabs what you say is right, but i want to see the information sources.

Click to expand...

Here is the article I repost

First China-made 28nm lithography machine expected to be delivered in 2021-2022



According to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, the Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (Group) Co. (SMEE) announced that, building on the previous 90nm the first China-made 28nm immersion type lithography machine will be delivered in 2021-2022.

Although it still has a big gap with the Dutch 7nm chip preparation process, it also marks a leap forward in China-made lithography, which is gradually reducing the gap with ASML.

The Chinese market accounts for one-third of global semiconductor sales, and there is an urgent need for semiconductor import substitution.

According to Guotai Junan Securities, the SMEE is the most technologically advanced lithography equipment in China manufacturer. At present, the company's IC front-end lithography machine level is significantly different from ASML, but it continues to achieve milestones and has already achieved production capacity of 90nm process.

The company has achieved entry into the market from the low-end, with a high domestic market share in the market segment.

The company has advanced package lithography technology and has become an important supplier to leading packaging and testing companies, with a domestic market share of 80% and a global market share of 40%.

The company LED/MEMS/power device lithography machine performance indicators leading, LED lithography machine market share first.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Here is the article I repost

Click to expand...

Thanks, but is it an EUV? The article doesnt mention it, and it talks about the equipment being capable of at only 28nm.

Orthan said:

Its easy to argue in this way. Saying something and not backing it up with sources, and then tell the other to go search for it. Perhabs what you say is right, but i want to see the information sources.

Click to expand...

It is easier to ask questions not meant to be answerable at the current time to make it appear that your argument is sound. It is also easier to show up to a discussion with no background knowledge and ask everyone to assemble all sources for you.

Now, you have seen evidence of the nascent DUV machine that can produce 7nm chips with multi-patterning due in 2021. (Actually, the article is old, from June, which is why it states 2021-2022 for the DUV. I believe the process has been sped up to just 2021 since.) This is good enough for Huawei's current base stations even though it is not EUV. You want to see evidence of the emergence of the EUV machine planned for 2022? I will not dig through the forum for you but I will give you some quick help. Look for the user WTAN. Enter his profile and search through his posts. The information was from him (and possibly others). It will be a good crash course for you since you obviously haven't been following new information regarding Chinese lithography.

manqiangrexue said:

It is easier to ask questions not meant to be answerable at the current time to make it appear that your argument is sound. It is also easier to show up to a discussion with no background knowledge and ask everyone to assemble all sources for you.

Now, you have seen evidence of the nascent DUV machine that can produce 7nm chips with multi-patterning due in 2021. (Actually, the article is old, from June, which is why it states 2021-2022 for the DUV. I believe the process has been sped up to just 2021 since.) This is good enough for Huawei's current base stations even though it is not EUV. You want to see evidence of the emergence of the EUV machine planned for 2022? I will not dig through the forum for you but I will give you some quick help. Look for the user WTAN. Enter his profile and search through his posts. The information was from him (and possibly others). It will be a good crash course for you since you obviously haven't been following new information regarding Chinese lithography.

Click to expand...

Does WTAN work in the Chinese semiconductor industry?

cbl21 said:

Does WTAN work in the Chinese semiconductor industry?

Click to expand...

Don't know. I want to learn about China's achievements without making this forum a source for unpublished information on China for governments/forces hostile to China. National security first. So I don't ask for information that shouldn't be divulged on public forums.

The issue with 3D integration on chips is you need multiple passes to do it, which decreases productivity, and at least in the case of logic you would get heat dissipation issues. In memories this is less of a problem since you typically only access a couple select areas of the chip at one time. Chips already use multiple layers as it is but the more layers you use the more time it takes to manufacture a chip. No, what China needs is a lithography machine with high intensity so the exposure times can be reduced and productivity increases.
I think China could also try to leapfrog the West by developing tools which can handle 450mm wafers. This way they could reduce the cost per chip even further and only China has a large enough customer base to make these larger wafers economically viable.

Orthan said:

Thanks, but is it an EUV? The article doesnt mention it, and it talks about the equipment being capable of at only 28nm.

Click to expand...

It's not EUV. China EUV lithography tools are still in the research and development stage. China built a working replica of ASML EUV litho tool. But it has to redesign and work around the original design to avoid patent infringements. One way is to use a different EUV source, instead of using Laser Produce Plasma on Tin (ASML method), they are experimenting with several methods including Laser Produce Plasma on Gadolinium(rare earth) , and Discharge Produce Plasma on Tin.
The following links are summary of China R & D in EUV lithography tools. Note that publication dates are 2013 and 2015. Some of the basic EUV litho R&D go far back as 2008.

coolieno99 said:

...
China built a working replica of ASML EUV litho tool. But it has to redesign and work around the original design to avoid patent infringements. One way is to use a different EUV source, instead of using Laser Produce Plasma on Tin (ASML method), they are experimenting with several methods including Laser Produce Plasma on Gadolinium(rare earth) , and Discharge Produce Plasma on Tin.
...

Click to expand...

With LPP they use a MW of electric power to generate a couple hundred W of light. So horrendously inneficient. DPP has a lot of potential and if they can get the power output up would be a big deal. DPP is supposedly an order of magnitude more efficient. This is a huge deal since not only would the equipment use much less power but it would also be smaller and degrade less with use.

coolieno99 said:

China built a working replica of ASML EUV litho tool. But it has to redesign and work around the original design to avoid patent infringements.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect patent infringement to be an issue China is concerned with in the present circumstances. China will develop and use whatever semiconductor technologies it needs and the patent holders can sit and spin. If ASML doesn't like it, it should blame itself for its failure in lobbying its government for an export license to China.

Some in Congress said they were going pass laws that would allow Americans companies to violate Chinese 5G technology patents so they can establish domestic 5G technology. That means China can violate the hell out of their IP. If the US is working to undermine China's economy, what's going to stop China from violating their IP? It's like I come across people who hate Chinese and they literally think Chinese are suppose to hate themselves now. Absurd? You just have look at this forum where you have people who don't understand how a Chinese forum can have pro-China views like some crime was committed. They can't make their arguments because this forum has too many pro-Chinese members like that's unfair. Democracy is only okay when votes favor their views...