Bloomberg bro. Everything written by a US newspaper is recognizable, even from Pluto.
Chinese semiconductor industry
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Bloomberg bro. Everything written by a US newspaper is recognizable, even from Pluto.
You see this sort of behavior a lot in software development where senior staff want to stay with their old ass tech stack without having a clear and convincing argument. Just pure emotional bullshit and the fear of becoming useless because because they might need to learn new stuff.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Love how Americans think they can stop China. It's racist in nature because how did the West come up with computer chips out of no where? You can't contain an idea without extreme measures against freedom on their own society. That's why it's a lost cause. Most modern weapons have their basic functions originating from ideas from China. Before they got ideas from China, they were chucking spears at one another as they would describe those they see as primitives. How come they couldn't make that jump without China opening the world of mechanical and chemical weapons engineering before? Chemistry was seen as witchcraft to them. Could China have contained it? No. It's the same with semiconductors. The knowledge is out there. They can't stop it but their racism makes them think they can put that genie back in the bottle.
I think there is a more insidious factor, these semiconductor companies have a lot of influence within Chinese electronic industry, they cannot lobby the Chinese government as they do in the United States or Japan, but they have bought influence in other ways through overseas Chinese returning to work in China, partnering with research institutions and even by less subtle means. China used to have a local EDA software industry in the early 2000s which made the United States lift the embargo on EDA software in 2003 I think, immediately NorthAmericans companies established partnerships with Chinese universities and companies and the rest is history.
The point is that these companies that dominate global semiconductor industry today are not going to lose that market just because, so they will continue to buy influence within the Chinese electronics industry to continue spreading the message that their equipment is safe and at the same time lobbying American politicians. The problem is that there are a lot of hawkish cold war warriors politicians with poor knowledge on the industry but with a lot of political influence hell bent on the idea of destroying Chinese companies that compete with U.S companies and more if they out-compete U.S ones and just a matter of time until Trump wins in 2024.
I feel like anything with computer/robot voice and generic stills/videos are just their to really really spam for ad money.
@t2contra bro about 50/50 most are exaggerated BUT there are truth in it, you have to peeled the layers and used that info to correspond to what we know, sometimes a tiny bit of news complete the whole story.
Yeah brother, that is how I view it too.
It is sort of like business, actually it is business. Decisions are always made with incomplete information. We can only try our best.
There is strategy involved, that is is like warfare, space, time, mass.
What we are doing is watching the battlefield. We watch the IC battlefield in our armchairs.
Clearly, something moved on this battlefield the last couple of weeks.
But we do not know what? It could be the heavy artillery being put into place, or a fox running through the minefield.
If something moved on the battlefield, we definitely very curious what that was.
To me, the most significant move, was Huawei and SMIC teaming up together to build a fab.
That seems outrageous. The fab must be built, and the equipment must be purchased. But from who?
It is no secret that IC companies worldwide are scared crapless of Uncle Samuel and his sanctions, against Huawei and SMIC, and here they are building it together.
And we do not know, what is going to be installed in that fab, just it most definitely will not be foreign equipment.
At this point, the wild speculation starts. At this point, that wild speculation may be even appropriate.
Huawei and SMIC made a real move on the battlefield. They showed one thing, but refused to show another.
@horse bro SMEE is behind especially in EUVL BUT in DUVL even though it's not the Best, it's our owned with SMEE 90nm SSA600, and the incoming SSA800 28nm. There is a reason why ASML will object on any additional sanction, China already had reach Core competency and maybe in 2023 we may see the introduction of an improve model SSA900 22nm DUVL that can match ASML NXT 2050i and the latest Nikon DUVL, it can do 5nm using multiple patterning. There is No turning back for using domestic alternative, like what @Oldschool posted below. Using ASML and other US equipment is like having a Damocles Sword hanging over your head.Yeah brother, that is how I view it too.
It is sort of like business, actually it is business. Decisions are always made with incomplete information. We can only try our best.
There is strategy involved, that is is like warfare, space, time, mass.
What we are doing is watching the battlefield. We watch the IC battlefield in our armchairs.
Clearly, something moved on this battlefield the last couple of weeks.
But we do not know what? It could be the heavy artillery being put into place, or a fox running through the minefield.
If something moved on the battlefield, we definitely very curious what that was.
To me, the most significant move, was Huawei and SMIC teaming up together to build a fab.
That seems outrageous. The fab must be built, and the equipment must be purchased. But from who?
It is no secret that IC companies worldwide are scared crapless of Uncle Samuel and his sanctions, against Huawei and SMIC, and here they are building it together.
And we do not know, what is going to be installed in that fab, just it most definitely will not be foreign equipment.
At this point, the wild speculation starts. At this point, that wild speculation may be even appropriate.
Huawei and SMIC made a real move on the battlefield. They showed one thing, but refused to show another.
Oldschool
Junior Member
Registered MemberToday at 1:25 AMNew
This article explains why SMEE 90 nm didn't have much sale when it came out.
The first set of 90nm DUV came out in 2009, it mostly used foreign main components in 2009, so foreign countries decided to ban those components sale to China to block SMEE.
So, SMEE cannot mass producing 90nm DUV and it kind of abandoned that to switch to packaging and display lithography. That first set is just stayed as display sample piece .
But China kept working on those major subcomponents like light source, optics, and work stage and it solved those issues and transitions to 65nm system, US immediately modified wassaner rules and allowed 65nm DUV be exported to CHina.
In 2010, below 90nm system banned to China and in 2015, below 65nm system banned to China.
So currently below 14nm banned to China but US defense wants below 28nm banned to China due to the trick of multipatterning to get to lower nodes.
当我国攻破这些难题之后，开始从90nm向65nm光刻机进发。得知此消息的国外阵营立刻摆出了第二张面孔，2015年以美国为首的瓦森纳协议表示允许65nm以上的设备销售给中国。要知道，2010年的可是禁售90nm以下的设备，到了2015年就改成了65nm以下了。
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Oldschool
Junior Member
Registered MemberToday at 1:30 AMNew
So if you see the history of progress don't worry about the current time when it will be production for certain nodes. It might get delayed here and there, got delayed by couple years or so but it will eventually get solved.
Look at in 2009, majority of the components were just foreign made.
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antiterror13
Brigadier
Yeah brother, that is how I view it too.
It is sort of like business, actually it is business. Decisions are always made with incomplete information. We can only try our best.
There is strategy involved, that is is like warfare, space, time, mass.
What we are doing is watching the battlefield. We watch the IC battlefield in our armchairs.
Clearly, something moved on this battlefield the last couple of weeks.
But we do not know what? It could be the heavy artillery being put into place, or a fox running through the minefield.
If something moved on the battlefield, we definitely very curious what that was.
To me, the most significant move, was Huawei and SMIC teaming up together to build a fab.
That seems outrageous. The fab must be built, and the equipment must be purchased. But from who?
It is no secret that IC companies worldwide are scared crapless of Uncle Samuel and his sanctions, against Huawei and SMIC, and here they are building it together.
And we do not know, what is going to be installed in that fab, just it most definitely will not be foreign equipment.
At this point, the wild speculation starts. At this point, that wild speculation may be even appropriate.
Huawei and SMIC made a real move on the battlefield. They showed one thing, but refused to show another.
What I don't understand is why SMIC would help Huawei to build a fab, would that be a fierce competitor to SMIC ? What SMIC would gain from Huawei which has no experience in fab business ?
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