Chinese purchase of Su-35

vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
PanAsian said:
Operationally whether the Su-35s are concentrated in an aggressor squadron and/or deployed across 1 or 2 frontline bases, it's well within the PLA's bandwidth to maintain. Perhaps that doesn't qualify the deal as making sense "operationally" but rather tactically. These planes may well allow the PLA to fly more assertively than otherwise against close-in-surveillance, show-of-force flights by others and/or go on contested routine patrols of disputed territory. It's well worth the PLA's bandwidth to maintain as they help keep potential opponents on their toes as to what the PLA can do/is doing/might do with them per everything everyone has already mentioned.
Click to expand...

I agree that forming an aggressor unit is a good way of using the Su-35's. It will allow the PLAAF to not only train with thrust vectoring, but also develop tactics against thrust vectoring. It will allow the PLAAF to develop their own tactics for their own future thrust vectoring.

However, I disagree with using the Su-35's specifically to counter close-in-surveillance. The PLAAF has been flying their Flankers in the East and South China seas for decades. They better have effective ways to protect their codes and signals against surveillance by now. If not, whatever they have have already been captured by everyone operating in the same area. It's way too late for them to use the Su-35 for that purpose.

Based on the info that we have, the PLAAF pilots have been flying aggressively in the East and South China Seas. Any more aggressive might lead to accidents, which no one wants.

Plus, data integration is one of the most important aspects of modern air combats. without proper integration with the existing Chinese systems, these Su-35's would be half blind and half deaf. the Su-35's combat effectiveness would be seriously compromised. That would cause the pilots to be less able to finish their jobs. Any potential miscommunication among the Su-35 pilots and other PLAAF planes and their bases might also lead to miscommunication between the Chinese and their opponents. Miscommunication may lead to wars. Not good.

So in my opinion, the PLAAF would at least attempt to fully integrate their Su-35's with their own systems as soon as they got the planes. That's the only way to fully utilize these amazing planes, no matter how they want to use them. Not fully integrating them would be almost equivalent to hiding these amazing planes in caves, which would be a pity.
 
Last edited:
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
vesicles said:
Based on the info that we have, the PLAAF pilots have been flying aggressively in the East and South China Seas. Any more aggressive might lead to accidents, which no one wants.
Click to expand...

Have to think in terms of search and rescues. If something bad happens and pilot has to eject, the plane needs to send location data to command

vesicles said:
So in my opinion, the PLAAF would at least attempt to fully integrate their Su-35's with their own systems as soon as they got the planes. That's the only way to fully utilize these amazing planes, no matter how they want to use them. Not fully integrating them would be almost equivalent to hiding these amazing planes in caves, which would be a pity.
Click to expand...

Not cost effective to spend the time and money on such small number of planes
 
A

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Maybe we'll see PLAAF use Su-35 to intercept US spy planes and Japanese sub hunters or F-15Js.
Click to expand...

I just don't see a small number of Su-35 with Russian avionics being used as a front-line plane.

These days, China can buy a similar domestic aircraft (J-16/J-11D) which can integrate with Chinese battle networks for a lot less money.

But using them primarily as an aggressor squadron simulating the F-22 does make much more sense. China is now approaching a thousand J-10/J-11/Su-27/J-20 type aircraft, which could use that training.

If do this with a high tempo training programme, the Su-35 airframes might only last 10 years anyway.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
vesicles said:
I agree that forming an aggressor unit is a good way of using the Su-35's. It will allow the PLAAF to not only train with thrust vectoring, but also develop tactics against thrust vectoring. It will allow the PLAAF to develop their own tactics for their own future thrust vectoring.

However, I disagree with using the Su-35's specifically to counter close-in-surveillance. The PLAAF has been flying their Flankers in the East and South China seas for decades. They better have effective ways to protect their codes and signals against surveillance by now. If not, whatever they have have already been captured by everyone operating in the same area. It's way too late for them to use the Su-35 for that purpose.

Based on the info that we have, the PLAAF pilots have been flying aggressively in the East and South China Seas. Any more aggressive might lead to accidents, which no one wants.

Plus, data integration is one of the most important aspects of modern air combats. without proper integration with the existing Chinese systems, these Su-35's would be half blind and half deaf. the Su-35's combat effectiveness would be seriously compromised. That would cause the pilots to be less able to finish their jobs. Any potential miscommunication among the Su-35 pilots and other PLAAF planes and their bases might also lead to miscommunication between the Chinese and their opponents. Miscommunication may lead to wars. Not good.

So in my opinion, the PLAAF would at least attempt to fully integrate their Su-35's with their own systems as soon as they got the planes. That's the only way to fully utilize these amazing planes, no matter how they want to use them. Not fully integrating them would be almost equivalent to hiding these amazing planes in caves, which would be a pity.
Click to expand...

I assume these planes are already/will be sinicized somewhat, to what degree not sure.

Since there are inherent accusations of hostility and aggression with close-in surveillance itself, its interception, or when rival claimants contest each others' patrol of disputed territory, whether which side is being aggressive in these encounters is by default politicized.

These are also by definition games of chicken with inherent risk, so even though no one wants escalation to a disproportionate level everyone is consciously choosing to participate in risky business. The mere ability to fly more assertively in such encounters is a deterrent, especially combined with occasional actual behavior.

Not to say they should or they will but it is a capability the Su-35 provides.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
The unique capability of Su-35 in a boarder patrol and interception mission is its super maneuverability. It can fly over the opponent and hover on top of it and use its jet blast to burn the opponents cockpit and paint job.

It's a joke. :D
 
I

Inst

Captain
The other problem with border patrol is that given that it's the state-of-the-art Russian technology, it would aggravate tensions between Russia and Japan were China to use it against the Japanese. That has to have been considered.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Inst said:
The other problem with border patrol is that given that it's the state-of-the-art Russian technology, it would aggravate tensions between Russia and Japan were China to use it against the Japanese. That has to have been considered.
Click to expand...
Su-35 is so far "spotted only in Southern China". It is not an issue right now.

In a possible deployment of Su-35 in the east China sea, it should not be too much an issue either because the current Russo-Japan relation is fried/toasted by the disputing 4 islands. That dispute is no less severe than Diaoyu island between China and Japan. Actually it can serve a signal from Russia to Japan in relation to their dispute. We have seen that Russia is as active as China in circulating Japan with their aircraft. BTW, the island disputes are just the surface of the iceberg, the real issue is the strategic orientation of Japan. The tension between China/Russia and Japan is only going to go higher in the foreseeable future.
 
R

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
I still think Chinese purchase of 2 squadrons of su-35 is the price Russia exacted for helping the Chinese overcome some irksome technical hurdle the Chinese do not believe they could overcome within 5 years by themselves. I think it is engine related.

I think the Chinese has no real operational need for Su-35, particularly as an oddball force of limited numbers incompatible with the rest of the Chinese fighter fleet.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Richard Santos said:
I still think Chinese purchase of 2 squadrons of su-35 is the price Russia exacted for helping the Chinese overcome some irksome technical hurdle the Chinese do not believe they could overcome within 5 years by themselves. I think it is engine related.

I think the Chinese has no real operational need for Su-35, particularly as an oddball force of limited numbers incompatible with the rest of the Chinese fighter fleet.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but the question is then "what" exactly? Without anything specific this idea is pure speculation, though that's pretty much par for the course in this hobby.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top