Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
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I agree that from an operational standpoint, the Su-35 doesn't make much sense for the PLAAF.
But from a technology point of view, shaving a year off Chinese self-sufficiency in engines is literally worth billions.
And actually, the money given to Russia isn't free, but mostly at commercial rates to facilitate Russian exports to China. But this is still a win-win situation for both parties.
In the long-run, Russia is locked in a competition over eastern Europe with the EU and the USA, both of which have an economy some 10x larger than Russia. So Russia will increasingly need Chinese support to maintain its interests in Europe, and it will be in China's interests to ensure Russia survives.
China's growth doesn't directly impact Russia's economic/political/industrial centre of gravity which is in European Russia, as Russia is separated from China by the vast expanses of empty Siberia.
In comparison, the EU was economically poised to expand next to Russia's heartland with Ukraine.
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Also China may be worried about being underarmed for a shooting war or to deter a shooting war and 24x Su-35 will make a difference in a lot of scenarios. I'm sure someone must have mentioned this somewhere before on this thread as this discussion is really revisiting an old topic. I think this purchase makes sense politically, technologically, and operationally.
vesicles
Colonel
I agree that the purchase makes sense politically and technologically, but not operationally. Such small batch makes no sense in terms of operation. The Su-35 is a lot different from other Flankers, which means separate logistics would have to be set up specifically for the Su-35's. that's a lot of headache for such small batch of equipment.
Most of China's potential opponents in any future potential conflicts will be highly capable. Surely China expects to lose many of their equipment during any potential conflict. If the PLAAF intends to use the Su-35 in an actual combat, what is their plan for attrition? Do they have extra parts? Do they plan to replace lost Su-35's in combat? How do they do that? Even if they order another batch of 24, when will that batch get to China? Even a total of 48 planes wouldn't be enough for anything.
The engine hypothesis makes little sense when we consider that these Su-35s are being flown and not sitting on tarmac engineless. Maybe they can study the 117s to see if they can glean any insights for their own development, but I'm dubious about how much value that would add.
Primarily FCS theories and principles for TVC integrations I suspect, though it's probably more for comparing solutions than for outright copying.
China must have at least 1 spare engine for testing. And it would provide some sort of benefit
It's always useful to take a look at the solutions employed by others, if for nothing else than to grow your base of knowledge, but the dependence logic of the engine argument for the Su-35 purchase is probably overstretched.
I'm not saying that the engines are the only reason.
I think using the Su-35 as a separate aggressor squadron makes the most sense.
The Su-35 has been optimised for agility with thrust vectoring and a high power weight ratio.
So it is probably the most similar to the F-22 in terms of dogfighting kinematics.
So these airframes would get a lot of use as they would be tasked with training the entire PLAAF on WVR dogfighting. And it would have the advantage of not having to integrate the different avionics with the rest of the PLAAF.
We know that the PLAAF is serious about obtaining air superiority in the Western Pacific, which will likely require WVR dogfighting against a F-22
Yano, now that I think about it the Su-35 might also help them start developing tactics and maneuvers for their own fighters without having to wait for a TVC engine to finish development.
Operationally whether the Su-35s are concentrated in an aggressor squadron and/or deployed across 1 or 2 frontline bases, it's well within the PLA's bandwidth to maintain. Perhaps that doesn't qualify the deal as making sense "operationally" but rather tactically. These planes may well allow the PLA to fly more assertively than otherwise against close-in-surveillance, show-of-force flights by others and/or go on contested routine patrols of disputed territory. It's well worth the PLA's bandwidth to maintain as they help keep potential opponents on their toes as to what the PLA can do/is doing/might do with them per everything everyone has already mentioned.