Chinese purchase of Su-35

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
This finalization of Su35 deal at the heel of signing conclusion of S400 a week ago.

Why this flurry of finalization of deals?

I think it's a political gesture from Putin, showing support for China after finally the onset of US military FON operation at SCS.

It's hardly rumor anymore at this point. They all seem legit given the current geopolitical situation.
 

GreenestGDP

Junior Member
... ...Planes tend to get heavier with improved avionics and engines. I doubt that J-11B weighs less then J-11A ....

With All Due Respect ... ...
IMHO, ...

Firstly, let's admit PRC Turbofan engine technology is China achilles heel.
Secondly, let's be frank and admit Russian TVC technology is the best in the world.
and at this moment, PRC does not have any TVC technology in any PLA fighter aircrafts.

If one is willing to examine the BIG geopolitical picture of Global Prosperity,
then Russia selling Su-35 to PRC is a win--win deal for both of us.

Unfortunately sadly to say, many members do not have the capacity
or unwilling to factor in the BIG geopolitical situations surrounding China.

=== ===

Now, let's focus on J-11B weight alone ... ...

It sounds like you have not updated yourself on the Additive Manufacturing
advancements in PRC in heavy manufacturing for the last 10 years.

I think ... ...
These 3 pictures below shall help you start your research in the right direction.

Even if you do not understand Chinese, you can still use your logical mind
to examine the diagram below. If you are willing to use your logical mind,
then you will quickly deduce that ...

1) Examine the AVIC J-11B modifications diagram below ... ...
After applying 15 total modifications in 15 area, ShenYang J-11B and other J-11
derivatives are absolutely different beasty birds compare to J-11A.



J-11B--Flanker--modif--diagram--1710px900.jpg


2) Examine the 1st generation multi--functions--panoramic display picture
below taken in 2008 Zhuhai Aeronautics trade show.


panoramic-cockpit--display--7 yrs ago--1a.jpg

If you are willing to use your logical mind,
then you will quickly deduce that ...

PLAAF should be smart enough to install and experiment with this 1st
generation multi--functions--panoramic toy at least starting from 2007.
Download and examine the picture property.

===

At this moment in year 2015, ShenYang J-11B is very likely already use the 3rd
generation multi--functions--panoramic display shown below ... ...
This new generation electronic components shall reduce the avionics weight even further.

J-16--panoramic-cockpit--display--1.jpg


3) Now comes the bread and butter, ... ...
IMHO, ... ...
this stuff below is rarely discussed extensively in any military forums.

ShenYang has been extensively applying
the Additive Manufacturing technique to J-11B and other J-11 derivatives to
increase the robustness and strength of all the J-11xx inside aircraft frames,
and simultaneously at the same time reduce the same aircraft frame
weight by at minimum 40%.
And, if you understand the development on Additive Manufacturing,
then you know this 40% is a very low estimate on my part.

This Additive Manufacturing methods alone will tilt the J-11B Thrust Weight
ratio to another level, way beyond the estimation of the usual media military pundits.

The air frame weight reduction could be more than 70%.
Just check out the English source at GE Aeronautics, and
you will realize that I am not boasting.

frame--2.jpg

===

And, I have not even mentioned on other method of weight reduction
by using complex geometrical shapes and shifting the inner filling structure yet.
That will be on another time.


For more detail and in-depth info, ... ...
Please personally cross check by looking up the proof
& studying the Additive Manufacturing advancements via Google yourself.
 
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kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
easy, show me a J-11 that super cruises? can you? no you can not but i can show you F-15Ks with AESA radars, F-15Js with AAM-5s and AAM-4s, the AIM-5 is a HMS cued missile with AIM-9X capabilities, making any superiority of J-11 in WVR in turn capability useless.

Rafale and Eurofighter supercruise, and the same Su-35

LOL, nobody is going to be fooled by a Japanese troll now. We know most anti-China propaganda are from the US, on the surface. But most anti-China propaganda were financed by Japanese, such as TheDiplomat and FinancialTimes. ;)
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys ... no more Japanese vs. China talks in this tread nor otherwise !

Besides that I think a few simply - beside all feelings to the contrary - that this deal is done ... why is maybe still beyond us, but the PLAAF surely had its ideas behind that purchase ... and even if it simply is a political move to gain something we right now can't see.

Deino
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Why not ?? The Su-35 is surely not worse than the J-11B. If the J-11D and J-16 will match the Su-35 in terms of avionics, weapons, maneuverability is still not clear and esp. the TVC is a new capability woth to explore.

If only 24 aircraft in the big-picture are a dramatic change and plus of new capabilities is indeed questionable. For me it generally is most of all a political deal and as such only a small part of a much larger scale of the Sino-Russian strategic relations.

Deino

Sorry, I should've made my post better understood. The jet does not really bring any novel capabilities to the PLAAF (besides perhaps thrust vectoring), and will have immense trouble integrating itself into the PLAAF fleets due to compatibility issues; they will prove far more of a burden than asset.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
Sorry, I should've made my post better understood. The jet does not really bring any novel capabilities to the PLAAF (besides perhaps thrust vectoring), and will have immense trouble integrating itself into the PLAAF fleets due to compatibility issues; they will prove far more of a burden than asset.

If nothing else, this batch will be used for comparison study of Indian and Indonesian air forces. Both are possible Su-35 buyers in the near future.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
to understand the advances it brings even over the Su-30MKIs/Su-30SM/Su-30MS is basically it will fly faster and longer distances at those speeds than a regular J-11 or Su-30, it means if a enemy fighter launches a missile at it it has higher probability of escaping an enemy`s missile, add the Thrust vectoring nozzles and it means it can dodge the missiles at higher speeds, that advantage means than even a F-22 needs to kill it at longer ranges but it is fast enough to have higher odds than a J-11 to live and with a 400 km range of detection it means it knows the enemy is there sooner and it can approach it quicker reducing the ability of any 4th generation fighter to escape.

Why do you think the Su-35 is "faster"? As I understand, speed hinges mostly on aerodynamic layout, which should be same between for the Su-35 and J-11B/D.

Any air-to-air missile will outrun a fighter jet; the minute discrepancies between the speeds amongst varying aircraft is insignificant. Please provide evidence that TVC is helpful in "dodging missiles"; no air force besides Russia's believes so.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Why do you think the Su-35 is "faster"? As I understand, speed hinges mostly on aerodynamic layout, which should be same between for the Su-35 and J-11B/D.

Any air-to-air missile will outrun a fighter jet; the minute discrepancies between the speeds amongst varying aircraft is insignificant. Please provide evidence that TVC is helpful in "dodging missiles"; no air force besides Russia's believes so.

TVC allows a plane do abrupt., sharp angle turn. The plane can slow down and then do a sudden turn when the missile is almost near it. The momentum of missile will cause it to dash past and miss the target.
 
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