Chinese oversea bases

tphuang

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What's to stop US subs and ships to shower that base with Tomahawk missiles from say Andaman Sea?
It's a lot harder to destroy a spread out base with more air defense units than what's on spratleys. There will also be more people available to repair base compared to spratleys, which simply don't have lodging available. The problem with spratleys is just the small area that makes it more easily targetable and destroyed. It's similar to why American first island chain bases are not that survivable against large number of missiles.

Also, the big fear is nuclear submarines rather than surface combatants since the latter is rather easy to track and attack with hypersonic missiles. The risk of facing 300 subsonic cruise missiles from 10 to 12 submarines is not as threatening as facing b21 flying over and dropping 10t of pgms. So if they can reduce threat to just missile launches from nuclear subs, the threat is just not as scary.

Also, what use China has from a base that host-country don't wants/fears to admit, from fearing the US reaction? How reliable is such base in hour of need?
Due to geography, the threat of pla missiles is greater than that of usn.

Using that logic, no country within pla missiles range would want to host us bases, right?
You have to be realistic- China has no and will have no allies in an eventual fight against the US. All surrounding countries fear China and will be on US side ( or at least not on Chinese side ) because they might not like the US very much, but at least US is 10 000 km away and China is across the border/sea. China is simply too big and strong to be accepted. China can be a master of SE Asia or one of US servants, but not equal player and friend. And all these countries prefer the second option.
Also, there's no big number of US expats in their countries, but there are millions of Chinese. And they mostly don't like them. And if China wins, they will have to start to like them.

Notable exception to this is, of course- at least at the moment, Russia. And NK too.
Yet in a recent poll conducted by japan, 48% of asean people consider china to be their important partner, higher than any other country.

There are clearly countries that America has turned it's back on. Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos are obviously in that list. Those are likely to side with china. Other countries are facing tug of war between the two powers. China would be well served to give a little bit on scs issues to win over these countries.

There is no reason china cannot protect and support it's allies.
 

abc123

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I


Due to geography, the threat of pla missiles is greater than that of usn.

Using that logic, no country within pla missiles range would want to host us bases, right?

Yet in a recent poll conducted by japan, 48% of asean people consider china to be their important partner, higher than any other country.

There are clearly countries that America has turned it's back on. Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos are obviously in that list. Those are likely to side with china. Other countries are facing tug of war between the two powers. China would be well served to give a little bit on scs issues to win over these countries.

There is no reason china cannot protect and support it's allies.

Yes, but these countries do host them and don't hide that. Japan, S. Korea etc. On the other side, Chinese "allies" are afraid/shame to say that they are Chinese allies. So, what use of them?

Who will ask the ordinary people anything? Like in Europe about Russia, Western/domestic propaganda will tell them that China is evil, that Xi is Asian Hitler etc., and voila... And their elites ale allready in US pockets for a long time and will be...

Alliance with China is/will be like having a fat girlfriend. Yes, she is useful for having sex ( so an "important partner"), but you are embarrased to be seen with her and do not want to acknowledge that...
 

tphuang

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Yes, but these countries do host them and don't hide that. Japan, S. Korea etc. On the other side, Chinese "allies" are afraid/shame to say that they are Chinese allies. So, what use of them?

Who will ask the ordinary people anything? Like in Europe about Russia, Western/domestic propaganda will tell them that China is evil, that Xi is Asian Hitler etc., and voila... And their elites ale allready in US pockets for a long time and will be...
I really doubt Cambodia elites are in western pockets, lol. It makes sense why Cambodia would deny. Plan is unlikely to put a fleet there during peace time for the foreseeable future. There is just no need as I outlined. Why deprive themselves of foreign investment from western countries? All these western accusations will only harden Cambodians against western smear campaign. And keep in mind that china will also try to have similar arrangements with Myanmar and Laos. Not necessarily real bases, but places they can stop by for visits, occasionally land aircraft and put up radar, elint stations and such for data collection.

And depending how well they resolve scs issues, Malaysia and Indonesia would get approached too. It's also in their interest to persuade Thailand and Philippines to not host western aircraft. After all, Australia using Philippines air base to intrude on Chinese air space is a real problem. That's a conversation china will want to have with the incoming Marcos admin. Do you really want your bases to be used in a way that could trigger a war in the area?
 

ansy1968

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For Singapore, an independent Sarawak or Sabah is beneficial for us.
I remember we had high hopes for the Philippines during the Marcos years.
We look to Marcos for support.
@badoc bro how are you, Yup remember The Jabidah massacre, Marcos is trying to retake Sabah BUT he botched it big time, thus the Malaysian retaliated by covertly supporting the MILF, Why the MILF (bro not the Hentai variety...lol) and not the MNLF, cause the MNLF are the Tausugs who reside the Sulu Archipelago which include Sabah, part of Sultanate of Sulu empire. While the MILF are Maranaos.

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The Jabidah massacre on March 18, 1968, was the alleged killing of Moro army recruits who mutinied allegedly upon learning the purpose of their training.
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Singapore would have poured huge investments into Sarawak and Sabah instead of Batam.
Bro why is the ABU SAYAF is still active and why it can't be destroyed, Clue, most of them operate in Sabah and piracy is part of their culture.
That may siphon off some of our investments in China.
I remember we had high hopes of investments into Johor, Malaysia and Batam, Indonesia to form a triangle, industrial and trading zone.
After running into issues, we redirected our focus to China.
Bro is Johore and Penang heavily populated by Malaysian Chinese? Can they breakout of the Malaysian Union and create a separate state with Singapore? My analogy is that Malaysia will always side with America for her owned protection, its an artificial amalgamation of state created by the British and the US choose to support it instead of our claimed to Sabah.
 

Andy1974

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A base in Senegal is less than 3000km from both Gibraltar and Brazil. the PLARF could close the Med and S. Atlantic from this location. How do you imagine the US global posture might change if there was a base here? Whatever they do, it’s far, far away from China. I think this is part of Chinas strategy.

A base in Equatorial Guinea has been mentioned as a possibility, it is 4000km from Gibraltar and 5000km from Brazil. There is a serious lack of security in these waters, which gives the perfect excuse to set up a base.
 

tphuang

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A base in Senegal is less than 3000km from both Gibraltar and Brazil. the PLARF could close the Med and S. Atlantic from this location. How do you imagine the US global posture might change if there was a base here? Whatever they do, it’s far, far away from China. I think this is part of Chinas strategy.

A base in Equatorial Guinea has been mentioned as a possibility, it is 4000km from Gibraltar and 5000km from Brazil. There is a serious lack of security in these waters, which gives the perfect excuse to set up a base.
Similar to the argument against Kiribati base, a base in Senegal would be really hard for china to defend and resupply in time of war. It would be even harder to defend and provide value than Kiribati since it would take a month for a Chinese csg to get there. It would have no chance of surviving a NATO attack.
 

Andy1974

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Similar to the argument against Kiribati base, a base in Senegal would be really hard for china to defend and resupply in time of war. It would be even harder to defend and provide value than Kiribati since it would take a month for a Chinese csg to get there. It would have no chance of surviving a NATO attack.
It would have a chance of surviving in wartime, and it would take a lot of NATO resources to destroy it.

But, can the US afford to counter it in peacetime? As China projects into the Caribbean.

That base would force the US to properly expand the US 4th Fleet, they would have to massively increase defense spending again. The cost to China is minimal.

If the US bankrupts itself we don’t even need a war.
 

AndrewS

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It's a lot harder to destroy a spread out base with more air defense units than what's on spratleys. There will also be more people available to repair base compared to spratleys, which simply don't have lodging available. The problem with spratleys is just the small area that makes it more easily targetable and destroyed. It's similar to why American first island chain bases are not that survivable against large number of missiles.

Also, the big fear is nuclear submarines rather than surface combatants since the latter is rather easy to track and attack with hypersonic missiles. The risk of facing 300 subsonic cruise missiles from 10 to 12 submarines is not as threatening as facing b21 flying over and dropping 10t of pgms. So if they can reduce threat to just missile launches from nuclear subs, the threat is just not as scary.

An airbase adjoining a large civilian population will benefit from that availability of civilian construction equipment and construction supplies. Remember that it is normally civilian contractors who build out runways in any case.

Yet in a recent poll conducted by japan, 48% of asean people consider china to be their important partner, higher than any other country.

There are clearly countries that America has turned it's back on. Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos are obviously in that list. Those are likely to side with china. Other countries are facing tug of war between the two powers. China would be well served to give a little bit on scs issues to win over these countries.

There is no reason china cannot protect and support it's allies.

Cambodia and Laos also rely on the SCS sea lanes being kept open for their prosperity.

China also wants cargo ships to flow across the SCS sea lanes no matter what, given that China also relies on those sea lanes for raw materials imports and also for exports. Remember that China is the world's largest trading nation and also sits at the centre of the Asian trade network.

That is in stark contrast to the US, which in a conflict, would want to shut down the SCS sea lanes and implement a maritime blockade against China.
 

tphuang

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While I generally dislike anything Blake Herzinger has to say, he makes some good point here.
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The American/Western hysteria over Ream is way out of control. The Chinese portion of port is only 0.3 sqm. There likely won't be permanent troop basing as I discussed above.

For China, Western hysteria over something like this
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The source told the newspaper that scientists, as well as the military, would use the facility and that it would be used to host a ground station for the Chinese Beidou navigation satellite system. The person said China would not be involved in activities on the Cambodian portion of the base.
is just going to push Cambodia into closer relationship with China. I think ground station, radar station and helping Cambodia making their naval base more modern and capable is going to help things quite a bit. Foster great cooperation between PLA and Cambodian military.
 
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