Chinese MALE, HALE (and rotary, small, suicide) UAV/UCAV thread

[Blitzo]

Their regular range is 10000 km. I really don't think carrying 2t of payload would lower that be 70%. Doing bombing runs out to 1500km from the mainland border seem within their range.

For long endurance missions, they can certainly do that. But why not also also make it available for longer range missions?

I also don't know your argument for being more vunerable than H-6K. It should at minimum have much lower signature.

Considering we don't know what the range of the KD-21 actually is, I would hesitate to be so confident to say that they merely need to be 1500km outside of the PRC mainland coast/border.

As for survivability versus a H-6K, it is not merely about signature (which a CH-9 loaded with such huge weapons will have a significant signature anyway), but also speed. My view is that they're both not particularly survivable without substantial degradation of enemy air power and air defenses and naval power, as well as needing substantial fighter escort.


But sure, if we want to entertain the idea of CH-9s and H-6Ks carrying out strike missions with KD-21s against somewhere like Guam or like Australia, then chances are it's because you're desperate to maximize your salvo size and accepting you'll lose a bunch of aircraft on the way out, or that you've substantially secured air and sea control out to about 2000km at least, in which case the war is going your way anyhow and sending non-survivable aerial assets out at range is no big deal because you've done the hard work of fighting the initial phases of the conflict.


My view is to prefer avoiding scenarios where they are too desperate and have to throw everything and the kitchen sink in an opening salvo (which reflects their own incompetence), and to avoid scenarios where they've already mostly fought and succeeded through the hard part of the conflict (which would be presumptuous of their ability to win the hard part to begin with).

Instead, the most useful way to think of assets is how they could be utilized to contribute to the actual difficult part of a war where opfor assets have yet to be degraded and what threats are best matched to their characteristics.
That is why I view this kind of system like CH-9 as being more realistically for long endurance closer in ISR, EW and maybe ASW missions closer to China's coast, because in the opening phases of a high intensity environment there is a higher likelihood of that airspace being able to be more realistically secured by the PLA to enable their safe operation.

 

[Blitzo]

By the way, this is the specs of CH-9.

I'm not sure where that 7-10t MTOW came from but it sounded fishy to me to begin with.


I'm unsure if there's some sort of actual difference between the export version and the domestic version, but I doubt it would account for the domestic version having a MTOW twice that of the export version. If anything they should be very similar.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Scanned photo of CH-9. Posted by @WenJian0922 on Weibo.

 

[Miyayaya]

"The "Nine Days" UAV system is a heavy-duty drone with flexible configuration options, designed as the next-generation large-scale unmanned aerial general platform. It is equipped with a quickly interchangeable heavy-duty mission pod and eight mounting points, allowing it to fulfill various mission requirements such as air transport and airdrop, information support and countermeasures, and firepower strike and support by switching between different modular mission payloads. The aircraft has a wingspan of 25 meters, a maximum takeoff weight of 16 tons, and a maximum payload capacity of 6 tons."

Source official media. So seems like this thing can carry 2 YJ-12s... Also note the PL-12

 

[stormtroops]

"The "Nine Days" UAV

“九天” should be translated to "the Ninth Heaven"

 

[broadsword]

What a beast. Global Hawk checks in at under 15 tons and will be rendered 0days.

 

[sequ]

maximum takeoff weight of 16 tons

Sounds like it's engine has a thrust in the category of non-afterburning WS-13/21/RD-33/F404 etc.

Most likely a WS-13 variant with a small chance of a WP-13/14 variant.

 

[Blitzo]

View attachment 138866

View attachment 138867

"The "Nine Days" UAV system is a heavy-duty drone with flexible configuration options, designed as the next-generation large-scale unmanned aerial general platform. It is equipped with a quickly interchangeable heavy-duty mission pod and eight mounting points, allowing it to fulfill various mission requirements such as air transport and airdrop, information support and countermeasures, and firepower strike and support by switching between different modular mission payloads. The aircraft has a wingspan of 25 meters, a maximum takeoff weight of 16 tons, and a maximum payload capacity of 6 tons."

Source official media. So seems like this thing can carry 2 YJ-12s... Also note the PL-12

An impressive UAV, especially with that kind of MTOW and payload.

However just because it has a payload of 6tons doesn't mean it can carry YJ-12s.


YJ-12s are still very heavy missiles weighing well in excess of 1ton each, and the ability of an aircraft to carry it is not limited merely by its total payload but also whether a single mounting station has the structural ability to support a single large payload of that weight, and whether the aircraft is structurally and aerodynamically able to support it as well.

Considering how big the YJ-12 is in dimensions, and mass, I would be highly surprised if this thing could carry YJ-12.

Carrying those TL-17s (KD-88 pattern ALCMs) are already rather hefty for the aircraft

 

[by78]

CH-7 sub-scale flight test model.

 

[tphuang]

Considering we don't know what the range of the KD-21 actually is, I would hesitate to be so confident to say that they merely need to be 1500km outside of the PRC mainland coast/border.

As for survivability versus a H-6K, it is not merely about signature (which a CH-9 loaded with such huge weapons will have a significant signature anyway), but also speed. My view is that they're both not particularly survivable without substantial degradation of enemy air power and air defenses and naval power, as well as needing substantial fighter escort.


But sure, if we want to entertain the idea of CH-9s and H-6Ks carrying out strike missions with KD-21s against somewhere like Guam or like Australia, then chances are it's because you're desperate to maximize your salvo size and accepting you'll lose a bunch of aircraft on the way out, or that you've substantially secured air and sea control out to about 2000km at least, in which case the war is going your way anyhow and sending non-survivable aerial assets out at range is no big deal because you've done the hard work of fighting the initial phases of the conflict.


My view is to prefer avoiding scenarios where they are too desperate and have to throw everything and the kitchen sink in an opening salvo (which reflects their own incompetence), and to avoid scenarios where they've already mostly fought and succeeded through the hard part of the conflict (which would be presumptuous of their ability to win the hard part to begin with).

Instead, the most useful way to think of assets is how they could be utilized to contribute to the actual difficult part of a war where opfor assets have yet to be degraded and what threats are best matched to their characteristics.
That is why I view this kind of system like CH-9 as being more realistically for long endurance closer in ISR, EW and maybe ASW missions closer to China's coast, because in the opening phases of a high intensity environment there is a higher likelihood of that airspace being able to be more realistically secured by the PLA to enable their safe operation.

Now that the actual spec is out, it clearly isn't intended for this role.

A hypothetical large drone that can carry 2 LACMs (max 2 ton) to 2000 km beyond Chinese shores would be quite useful.

It was Shilao's podcast that said H-6K with LACMs was a huge part of their plan against Guam. Not me. You might want to check some assumptions before saying they are desperate in that scenario.

Given that we do not know the range of air launched LACM or PLAAF's own assumptions on air control, I would think that anything the plan for H-6K could be applied to a really large UCAV.